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re: Statues in NOLA are coming down.
Posted on 3/8/17 at 7:10 am to WhiskeyPapa
Posted on 3/8/17 at 7:10 am to WhiskeyPapa
No one in this thread has debated the rightness or wrongness of slavery. We pretty much all agree it was wrong.
But pulling down statues of American icons and heroes is the modern day equivalent of book-burning, no matter how much you and the other SJW's deny it.
The fact that it is both wrong and a waste of money for a city already in poor financial health, with much more important problems needing solutions, shows the glaring stupidity of both politicians and opportunistic hustlers.
But pulling down statues of American icons and heroes is the modern day equivalent of book-burning, no matter how much you and the other SJW's deny it.
The fact that it is both wrong and a waste of money for a city already in poor financial health, with much more important problems needing solutions, shows the glaring stupidity of both politicians and opportunistic hustlers.
Posted on 3/8/17 at 7:51 am to ballscaster
quote:
You people are getting craftier with the revisions, I'll give you that.
frick the Confederacy. They shouldn't have attempted to secede. It was dumb.
See, that's the funny thing. Its not a revisionist view of history. It's just not the mother goose fairy tale version you've been spoon fed. It's what actually happened, and because it deviates from the knight in shinning armor approach to the war you immediately reject it as having no validity.
King Cotton WAS the chief domestic product of the day, and the national economy and our federal funding was tied at the hip to it through high tariffs placed on it to fund the government. It constituted a very large portion of our national economy, was integral to northern factories, and as such was a hit when the south seceded. That's just a matter of fact.
Also a matter of fact was Lincoln's promise to not use force against the South or shed any blood as if the North would have invaded, had he had the force necessary to do so, which he did not, he would have been seen as the aggressor by the North and by European powers, He instead waited for the inevitable which came four months after secession by South Carolina. It paid off, as the South attacked, and Lincoln got his chance to muster troops in defense of what he characterized as an attack upon the Union.
Regardless, we can go tit for tat through this all day and it still will not do anything to nullify the fact that this very country was birthed in rebellion in pursuit of the right to self government, and that the very same rebellion and desire to govern themselves was done by the various Southern states who did not invade the north to start a war with them, but were invaded by northern states. You asked, "Instead of taking arms against the US, why not just get the frick out and pick a fight with somebody else?" I ask you. why didnt they just allow the South to pursue it's right to self government, seeing it was the very same argument used to pursue self government in the revolutionary war?
I'm not really a Southern revisionist or champion of southern independence, and I'm certainly not even sure the new confederacy would have worked long term, and glad it didnt, but I am a true believer in people's right to self government, the same ideals that spawned the war for independence from Britain, without which we would not be a nation today. What Ive never understood, when discussing this war with people however, is how they can completely ignore the fact that this very country is a country birthed in rebellion, and a desire to choose it's own government instead of it being forced upon them. How can those very same people feel so differently when others decide to follow in their footsteps in attaining their own self government?
Posted on 3/8/17 at 8:08 am to LongueCarabine
quote:
No one in this thread has debated the rightness or wrongness of slavery. We pretty much all agree it was wrong.
But pulling down statues of American icons and heroes is the modern day equivalent of book-burning, no matter how much you and the other SJW's deny it.
I give Andrew Jackson a pass because he was in a generation before slavery was condemned almost everywhere in the world - but here. The Brits abolished slavery in 1833.
Lee, Beauregard, those guys -- this is where you go wrong - they are not heroes.
It is like Rhett Butler said in Gone With the Wind, "The cause of living in the past is dying before our eyes."
No one who wants to drag people into the past can be a hero.
Posted on 3/8/17 at 8:12 am to Mike da Tigah
quote:
King Cotton WAS the chief domestic product of the day, and the national economy and our federal funding was tied at the hip to it through high tariffs placed on it to fund the government. It constituted a very large portion of our national economy, was integral to northern factories, and as such was a hit when the south seceded. That's just a matter of fact.
That is fricking nonsense is what it is. The Constitution prohibits any export tariff on American goods.
"The Constitution gives Congress the power to collect duties and imposts (Article I, Section 8, Clause 1), but prohibits the imposition of export duties (Article I, Section 9, Clause 5)."
LINK
Figure out what the lost cause actually was, then spout your crap.
This post was edited on 3/8/17 at 8:14 am
Posted on 3/8/17 at 8:21 am to Mike da Tigah
TL;DR
It just doesn't matter that much, sorry. It's over.
Meltdown: Day 55,455.
It just doesn't matter that much, sorry. It's over.
Meltdown: Day 55,455.
Posted on 3/8/17 at 8:26 am to WhiskeyPapa
quote:
"The Constitution gives Congress the power to collect duties and imposts (Article I, Section 8, Clause 1), but prohibits the imposition of export duties (Article I, Section 9, Clause 5)."
The tariff of 1828 affected European goods, made from Southern cotton, so that tariff to fund the government indirectly affected southern cotton and the southern economy.
Posted on 3/8/17 at 8:28 am to Mike da Tigah
quote:
King Cotton WAS the chief domestic product of the day
You are totally ignorant.
"The North, by contrast, was well on its way toward a commercial and manufacturing economy, which would have a direct impact on its war making ability. By 1860, 90 percent of the nation's manufacturing output came from northern states. The North produced 17 times more cotton and woolen textiles than the South, 30 times more leather goods, 20 times more pig iron, and 32 times more firearms. The North produced 3,200 firearms to every 100 produced in the South. Only about 40 percent of the Northern population was still engaged in agriculture by 1860, as compared to 84 percent of the South."
LINK
Posted on 3/8/17 at 8:33 am to LSU alum wannabe
I'm for removing the statues of the Confederate figures. I think it's a total insult to venerate people who were fighting for a treasonous white supremacist regime in this day and age.
As for Andrew Jackson's statue, I seriously doubt it will be removed. He wasn't part of the Confederate traitors who attacked the federal government and tried to dismantle the Union, a big difference. Personally, I think Jackson was a piece of shite for what he did to the Cherokee in Georgia (and his support of slavery), and I wouldn't mind to see his statue removed as well, but that's not happening anytime soon.
As for Andrew Jackson's statue, I seriously doubt it will be removed. He wasn't part of the Confederate traitors who attacked the federal government and tried to dismantle the Union, a big difference. Personally, I think Jackson was a piece of shite for what he did to the Cherokee in Georgia (and his support of slavery), and I wouldn't mind to see his statue removed as well, but that's not happening anytime soon.
Posted on 3/8/17 at 8:35 am to ballscaster
quote:
quote: It's quite clear who is triggered by the statues.
The level of self-unawareness exhibited by those who would rather the statues not come down is amazing.
Indeed. It really reveals who these people are.
Posted on 3/8/17 at 8:36 am to Mike da Tigah
quote:
"The Constitution gives Congress the power to collect duties and imposts (Article I, Section 8, Clause 1), but prohibits the imposition of export duties (Article I, Section 9, Clause 5)."
The tariff of 1828 affected European goods, made from Southern cotton, so that tariff to fund the government indirectly affected southern cotton and the southern economy.
Can you source that US cotton went overseas and came back as finished goods? That sounds wrong.
You said that the federal government was funded by tariffs on southern cotton. That is over the top ridiculous.
This post was edited on 3/8/17 at 8:37 am
Posted on 3/8/17 at 8:41 am to TigersFan64
quote:
Personally, I think Jackson was a piece of shite for what he did to the Cherokee in Georgia (and his support of slavery), and I wouldn't mind to see his statue removed as well, but that's not happening anytime soon.
That is a good point. But the reason for the Lee and Beauregard statues is to be an in your face "frick you" to American blacks. That is why some people like them so much.
Jackson as you probably know was a strong proponent of Union, at least.
Posted on 3/8/17 at 8:44 am to Mike da Tigah
quote:
The tariff of 1828 affected European goods, made from Southern cotton, so that tariff to fund the government indirectly affected southern cotton and the southern economy.
The southern cotton blockaded and not sent to Europe was replaced in English mills with cotton from Egypt. It seems very strange that US cotton would go to Europe only to return later as finished goods.
I won't hold my breath until you support such a thing in the record. You don't seem to know shite about the war.
Posted on 3/8/17 at 9:01 am to WhiskeyPapa
LINK
Southern grown cotton accounted for 2/3rds of the world's cotton in 1860, and was not only integral to Northern manufacturing, but critical to England's as well. You severely discount the importance of cotton to economies in that time period.
quote:
In 1860, for example, New England had 52 percent of the manufacturing establishments and 75 percent of the 5.14 million spindles in operation,” he explains. The same goes for looms. In fact, Massachusetts “alone had 30 percent of all spindles, and Rhode Island another 18 percent.” Most impressively of all, “New England mills consumed 283.7 million pounds of cotton, or 67 percent of the 422.6 million pounds of cotton used by U.S. mills in 1860.” In other words, on the eve of the Civil War, New England’s economy, so fundamentally dependent upon the textile industry, was inextricably intertwined, as Bailey puts it, “to the labor of black people working as slaves in the U.S. South.”
Southern grown cotton accounted for 2/3rds of the world's cotton in 1860, and was not only integral to Northern manufacturing, but critical to England's as well. You severely discount the importance of cotton to economies in that time period.
Posted on 3/8/17 at 9:16 am to ballscaster
quote:
TL;DR It just doesn't matter that much, sorry. It's over. Meltdown: Day 55,455.
Which probably explains your ignorance of a longer worded document like the Declaration of Independence, which was the initial point.
Again, how can you champion the right to self government in the Declaration, and not the right to self government by others, if it is such a sound principle upon which people dissolve bonds, and choose their own government instead? The right to self government is without question the bedrock of our American liberty and government that sits upon it.
How can you reconcile that? That was the point.
Are we the only people who reserve the right to choose our own government, or as the Declaration states, to abolish such bonds and institute new government which best affects a people's happiness?
People call the southerners treasonous, but all I'm saying is that it sounds very funny coming from the mouths of treasonous rebellious traitors themselves.
This post was edited on 3/8/17 at 9:30 am
Posted on 3/8/17 at 9:45 am to Mike da Tigah
quote:
Southern grown cotton accounted for 2/3rds of the world's cotton in 1860
So what?
The world went along without it.
In "12 Years A Slave" the author relates that the two slaves who picked the least cotton every day were whipped. Every day.
Posted on 3/8/17 at 9:46 am to WhiskeyPapa
quote:
But the reason for the Lee and Beauregard statues is to be an in your face "frick you" to American blacks. That is why some people like them so much.
Exactly. That is why I think they should have been removed. If I were a black person, I think I'd be insulted to have to pass by these statues of Confederate "heroes" being in a place of honor in a public site. I'm glad they are finally being removed. I don't have a problem with them being in a museum eventually, because we need to know our history, good and bad.
quote:
Jackson as you probably know was a strong proponent of Union, at least
Yes, this is the main difference I see between his statue and the Lee and Beauregard statues. At least Jackson didn't commit treason against the federal government, unlike Lee and Beauregard.
Incidentally, that is also one reason why I have a lot of respect for Zachary Taylor. He was also very pro-union and even though he was from a slave state, he was against the expansion of slavery into the new federal territories.
Posted on 3/8/17 at 9:47 am to WhiskeyPapa
quote:
In "12 Years A Slave" the author relates that the two slaves who picked the least cotton every day were whipped. Every day.
And?
What does that have to do with anything being discussed here?
Posted on 3/8/17 at 9:54 am to TigersFan64
quote:
I'm for removing the statues of the Confederate figures. I think it's a total insult to venerate people who were fighting for a treasonous white supremacist regime in this day and age.
And yet when the stautes were erected the people who actually fought against the Confederacy weren't insulted.
Some of you are like trained seals with your 'outrage.'
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