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re: So what do we do about the oil and gas industry, set price?
Posted on 4/1/20 at 8:29 am to trinidadtiger
Posted on 4/1/20 at 8:29 am to trinidadtiger
The “fracking industry” has been working hard at destroying themselves well before corona or the price war. These events are just accelerants forcing these poorly run, over levered capital destruction machines to have their day of reckoning sooner than later. And now the real problem isn’t the price war it is the collapsing demand that will persist with the damage done to the economy resulting in massive layoffs.
1
Posted on 4/1/20 at 8:31 am to Gtmodawg
quote:
living in a man camp was earning $150K last year and spent every dime on trucks and whores and boats and 4 wheelers and such
Didn't spend ALL of his money that way - spent a lot on booze, and the rest of it he just wasted.
Posted on 4/1/20 at 8:34 am to trinidadtiger
Well we should take advantage of this. They are selling energy for cheap. It sucks for the oil and gas sector, but for the rest of the economy it’s great. Especially during these down economic times.
Posted on 4/1/20 at 8:39 am to trinidadtiger
We do the same with our CRITICAL Energy Industry...that we are going to do with our CRITICAL Meds Manufacturing Industry. Support it to a degree that is necessary to undermine adversarial control of such. This is a National Security issue; as well as a economic basis for the kind of Recovery which will also be a security issue.
I know that many Free Market Ideological folk will harf at this, and letting Government essentially gain control, goes against the grain. My own Post history validates my anti-Statist views; but given that Nations like SA and Russia and China use Government to beat our Free Market CRITICAL Goods production...we have no choice. IF, we desire to remain free of their control, and ability to blackmail us into societal collapse.
How we make a transition, or how this affects future, relative economic freedom...I have no idea. We are going to have to force Politicos to be honest, and up front re their solutions/policies...and the REAL effects of such. That is the best we can hope for.
I know that many Free Market Ideological folk will harf at this, and letting Government essentially gain control, goes against the grain. My own Post history validates my anti-Statist views; but given that Nations like SA and Russia and China use Government to beat our Free Market CRITICAL Goods production...we have no choice. IF, we desire to remain free of their control, and ability to blackmail us into societal collapse.
How we make a transition, or how this affects future, relative economic freedom...I have no idea. We are going to have to force Politicos to be honest, and up front re their solutions/policies...and the REAL effects of such. That is the best we can hope for.
This post was edited on 4/1/20 at 9:16 am
Posted on 4/1/20 at 9:13 am to Buckeye Jeaux
quote:
No, I am not in the oil industry, but Rick Perry represents people who know more about this business than you do.
Rick Perry has a degree in animal science. There are engineers in this thread, myself included, who I can assure you know more about this business than Rick Perry.
quote:
American crude is being refined NOW in the US, and in large quantities.
No shite. It doesn’t matter. An executive order forcing US refineries to only use US crude would cause significant issues and could lead to a nationwide shortage of gasoline.
quote:
This is an attack on the US oil industry by Russia and the Saudis, you idiot.
Over here in the free world, we believe in capitalism. Eventually topping refineries for light, sweet crude will be built/expanded if those prices continue to stay low. We are just now reaching the point where the shale industry has been around long enough to really see those changes take place on the downstream side.
Posted on 4/1/20 at 9:14 am to Buckeye Jeaux
quote:
No, I am not in the oil industry, but Rick Perry represents people who know more about this business than you do.
American crude is being refined NOW in the US, and in large quantities.
This is an attack on the US oil industry by Russia and the Saudis, you idiot.
So the govenor of Texas is blaming everryone not in Texas, how original, who could have forseen it.
Your entire post says you do not grasp the forces at play or the motivations of any of the players, I would be wary of throwing the word idiot around were I you.
Posted on 4/1/20 at 9:20 am to RCDfan1950
quote:
We the same with our CRITICAL goods Industry...that we are going to do with our CRITICAL Meds Manufacturing Industry. Support it to a degree that is necessary to undermine adversarial control of such.
This is why we have the strategic petroleum reserve.
We are at the highest level of energy self-sufficiency in 50+ years and you guys are acting like the sky is falling. Shale is a swing producer - when prices rise, those wells can be worked over fairly quickly to boost production.
Additionally, the largest exporter to the US is CANADA, not Saudi Arabia or Russia.
Posted on 4/1/20 at 9:31 am to lostinbr
quote:
Rick Perry has a degree in animal science.
Can you read. You highlighted "Rick Perry represents people" who know more about the oil business than YOU do. And he does represent them.
The White House shot callers (and the boss himself, Trump) will personally listen to the proposals put forth by Perry. Will Trump take YOUR call on this issue?
Posted on 4/1/20 at 9:35 am to trinidadtiger
quote:
We cannot sit by and let the Saudis and Russia destroy the fracking industry. Suggestions?
Why not? It’s a private business. It should thrive and fail on its own. Oil and gas already got enough handouts and instead of doing their share pocketed it and never paid back the consumer they robbed. They can lie in their own mess.
Posted on 4/1/20 at 9:40 am to Geauxgurt
Dude clearly only cares because it is directly affecting him. F oil and gas. They’ve robbed the public blind for decades and have been given enough handouts. Sorry your high paying job is at risk. Others have suffered far worse and deserved help significantly more without any.
Posted on 4/1/20 at 9:48 am to trinidadtiger
Unbelievable. Some of you Trumpkins are moving at a rapid pace toward fascism.
Here we have one of you calling for the government to set the price of oil. A couple of you wanting to put tariffs on Americans that buy foreign oil. More than handful on this site want to end all purchases from China and reverse Trumps work on making it easier for US companies to do business in China.
You can't deny the fascism undertones in the nationalistic approach you advocate in the economy. Couple those the very large expansion of government we see and any mid century fascist would be proud.
Here we have one of you calling for the government to set the price of oil. A couple of you wanting to put tariffs on Americans that buy foreign oil. More than handful on this site want to end all purchases from China and reverse Trumps work on making it easier for US companies to do business in China.
You can't deny the fascism undertones in the nationalistic approach you advocate in the economy. Couple those the very large expansion of government we see and any mid century fascist would be proud.
This post was edited on 4/1/20 at 9:51 am
Posted on 4/1/20 at 9:52 am to cave canem
quote:
Your entire post says you do not grasp the forces at play or the motivations of any of the players, I would be wary of throwing the word idiot around were I you.
Look, Slick. People who throw around personal insults are going to get personal insults thrown back at them. Deal with it.
Posted on 4/1/20 at 9:55 am to I B Freeman
quote:
Unbelievable. Some of you Trumpkins are moving at a rapid pace toward fascism.
Seems like our choice may have become homegrown fascism or Chinese communism. NOT gonna opt for the latter.
Posted on 4/1/20 at 9:56 am to cwill
quote:
The “fracking industry” has been working hard at destroying themselves well before corona or the price war. These events are just accelerants forcing these poorly run, over levered capital destruction machines to have their day of reckoning sooner than later. And now the real problem isn’t the price war it is the collapsing demand that will persist with the damage done to the economy resulting in massive layoffs.
The industry has been eating itself as it has always done. Take a look at google earth of the Permian basin. On the texas side of the NM / Texas border sites are fairly far apart...on the NM side they worry about the pumps rubbing on one another (nearly) they are so close together....
Posted on 4/1/20 at 9:57 am to trinidadtiger
I like cheap gas. No thanks.
Posted on 4/1/20 at 9:58 am to I B Freeman
quote:
They are equally evil.
They are both evil, but not equally so.
Posted on 4/1/20 at 9:58 am to Parmen
quote:
I like cheap gas. No thanks.
How long before one of these clowns call you un-American??
Posted on 4/1/20 at 9:59 am to Buckeye Jeaux
quote:
Can you read. You highlighted "Rick Perry represents people" who know more about the oil business than YOU do. And he does represent them.
I highlighted it on purpose. You threw it out there as if that, somehow, meant Rick Perry’s proposal should be taken more seriously. He’s a career politician who doesn’t represent anybody at the moment, if you want to get technical. Unless you’re talking about his board seat on a midstream transportation company that would receive a windfall if a proposal like this ever made it through.
quote:
The White House shot callers (and the boss himself, Trump) will personally listen to the proposals put forth by Perry. Will Trump take YOUR call on this issue?
That makes it worse, not better.
The fact is that Perry’s comments are political maneuvering, plain and simple. If you ask anybody who doesn’t have to google the word “hydrocracker”, they will tell you it is simply impossible to force refineries to process nothing but US crude without devastating consequences.
Posted on 4/1/20 at 10:00 am to trinidadtiger
I'm in Oil & Gas. This is simply supply and demand. It works... it can be messy... but it works in the long run.
It took years but eventually OPEC cut their own throat with artificially high prices and the world reacted. Unprecedented booms in offshore exploration and production in West Africa, Brazil, North Sea, and the Gulf of Mexico. Our boom in Shale, fracking etc... would NEVER have happened with oil in the $20 price range. It took off with oil above $70 and really hit it's stride as oil got closer to $90 and $100.
The $19-$20 level is not sustainable long term for the Saudis or Russia. No one wants the goverment involved in our business but too many people seem to turn to the government as if they could solve this. They cannot except to increase taxes on imports which then raises the price artificially here in the U.S.
It took years but eventually OPEC cut their own throat with artificially high prices and the world reacted. Unprecedented booms in offshore exploration and production in West Africa, Brazil, North Sea, and the Gulf of Mexico. Our boom in Shale, fracking etc... would NEVER have happened with oil in the $20 price range. It took off with oil above $70 and really hit it's stride as oil got closer to $90 and $100.
The $19-$20 level is not sustainable long term for the Saudis or Russia. No one wants the goverment involved in our business but too many people seem to turn to the government as if they could solve this. They cannot except to increase taxes on imports which then raises the price artificially here in the U.S.
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