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1
Posted on 8/19/19 at 12:44 pm to Manzielathon
quote:
They all ... speak English with American accents etc.
I have my doubts about this, but it is still funny to think of them talking with a Bostonian "cah pahk", Minnesoda "eh?", Southern Belle "why I do declare", or Valley Girl "like every sentence ends in a question mark?" accent.
Posted on 8/19/19 at 12:44 pm to ToesOnTheNose213
I think for the most part we have been talking past each other about two different places, which is part of the problem with the Middle East, everyone conflates it all as one big thing. We are both at fault for that.
The Levant and the Gulf are extremely different places and we have had very different experiences based on that. Most of the religious and ethnic conflict as of late has been in the Levant as of late, which is why I focus on that.
I also wouldn’t include the Stans as Middle Eastern country, which is another topic of debate for a lot of people.
The Levant and the Gulf are extremely different places and we have had very different experiences based on that. Most of the religious and ethnic conflict as of late has been in the Levant as of late, which is why I focus on that.
I also wouldn’t include the Stans as Middle Eastern country, which is another topic of debate for a lot of people.
Posted on 8/19/19 at 12:46 pm to Manzielathon
I’ll take strawmen for $400, Alex.
An idiot is someone who doesn’t understand that the magnitude of the bell curve matters. You made the claim that the extremism is comparable, which is just ignorant propaganda. An idiot is also someone who thinks acknowledging that the amount of extremism isn’t comparable is the same as claiming one side has no extremism at all.
An idiot is someone who doesn’t understand that the magnitude of the bell curve matters. You made the claim that the extremism is comparable, which is just ignorant propaganda. An idiot is also someone who thinks acknowledging that the amount of extremism isn’t comparable is the same as claiming one side has no extremism at all.
Posted on 8/19/19 at 12:47 pm to Miner
quote:
So now it's Trump's fault ISIS is regrouping.
Maybe we shouldn't have funded them to begin with.
Posted on 8/19/19 at 12:51 pm to Manzielathon
Salafis n wahabbis. You are correct.
Posted on 8/19/19 at 12:54 pm to Manzielathon
Talking past each other. Yeah to an extent that's true.
Posted on 8/19/19 at 12:56 pm to Flats
I never said modern day extremism was comparable. We’ve been talking about the historical development of the Abrahamic religions.
I’ve already covered how the fact that most adherents of Christianity living in the developed world influenced Christianity in the modern day.
Why is it a shocker to you that extremism is flourishing in war torn countries and in developed countries where immigrants of certain backgrounds don’t feel accepted in their wider societies? To sit there and say it is specifically because they are Muslim is something an idiot would do.
You’re still an idiot.
I’ve already covered how the fact that most adherents of Christianity living in the developed world influenced Christianity in the modern day.
Why is it a shocker to you that extremism is flourishing in war torn countries and in developed countries where immigrants of certain backgrounds don’t feel accepted in their wider societies? To sit there and say it is specifically because they are Muslim is something an idiot would do.
You’re still an idiot.
This post was edited on 8/19/19 at 12:58 pm
Posted on 8/19/19 at 1:05 pm to therick711
quote:
The logic was the British imperialists placed ethnic and religious minorities in power to assure the puppet states wouldn't turn on their British masters. Thanks, Brits.
First thing that I thought of when I read this:
quote:
Explain to me the logic in arbitrarily carving up the Middle East into nation states that don’t follow logical ethnic or religious boundaries
Posted on 8/19/19 at 1:08 pm to Manzielathon
quote:
I never said modern day extremism was comparable.
quote:
Islam is not inherently different from Christianity or Judaism when it comes to diversity of theological opinions and perspectives, or the extremism that inhabits that spectrum.
quote:
To sit there and say it is specifically because they are Muslim is something an idiot would
To sit there and bash on another strawman is apparently all you can do. That, and call people names. Good talk.
Posted on 8/19/19 at 1:09 pm to Dissident Aggressor
Perfect example of the difference in Tactics vs. Strategy.
It’s logical in the short term, but not in the long term.
If the Brits and French had any foresight they would have kept more of the administrative methods / systems the Ottomans built intact.
It’s logical in the short term, but not in the long term.
If the Brits and French had any foresight they would have kept more of the administrative methods / systems the Ottomans built intact.
Posted on 8/19/19 at 1:13 pm to Flats
Funny how I never specified the time period in the comment you claim undermines my argument.
When someone references Christianity or Islam, does your brain immediately only think of taking into account the present day?
Talking about the Abrahamic religions requires the full historical context by necessity.
You’re equating my comment about extremism existing in a spectrum throughout the three religions as a statement that all extremism is equivalent and as frequent as one another in the present day ... which if you notice throughout this thread I’ve been trying to explain why the religions are at different points in their development.
You created the initial straw man and are now turning it around on me, it’s hilarious.
When someone references Christianity or Islam, does your brain immediately only think of taking into account the present day?
Talking about the Abrahamic religions requires the full historical context by necessity.
You’re equating my comment about extremism existing in a spectrum throughout the three religions as a statement that all extremism is equivalent and as frequent as one another in the present day ... which if you notice throughout this thread I’ve been trying to explain why the religions are at different points in their development.
You created the initial straw man and are now turning it around on me, it’s hilarious.
This post was edited on 8/19/19 at 1:17 pm
Posted on 8/19/19 at 1:21 pm to Manzielathon
quote:
Funny how I never specified the time period in the comment you claim undermines my argument.
quote:
...that inhabits...."
The third-person singular simple present indicative form of inhabit is inhabits.
https://www.wordhippo.com/what-is/the-past-tense-of/inhabit.html
Posted on 8/19/19 at 1:23 pm to Flats
lmao if this is what you have to fall back on
pretend it says “has inhabited and still inhabits”
My point still stands, you’re taking my comment about the three religions not being inherently different in diversity of thought and extremism that exists on their ideological spectrums to mean that I think their extremism as practiced is identical in frequency, violence, and number of adherents.
And you’re lecturing ME about straw men??
pretend it says “has inhabited and still inhabits”
My point still stands, you’re taking my comment about the three religions not being inherently different in diversity of thought and extremism that exists on their ideological spectrums to mean that I think their extremism as practiced is identical in frequency, violence, and number of adherents.
And you’re lecturing ME about straw men??
This post was edited on 8/19/19 at 1:28 pm
Posted on 8/19/19 at 1:25 pm to PsychTiger
quote:
Most of them are just going about their days trying to do the best they can for their families, just like most people here. Both groups also have fanatics who frick things up for the rest. A couple of our mentally ill assholes recently went on shooting sprees, a couple of their mentally ill assholes recently blew up a wedding. We need to get rid of mentally ill assholes.
That's all fine and well.
There are individuals and groups across the middle east and the world that hate America (Western Civilization) and all she stands for. They will always hate us.
You can't eradicate that. It's been ongoing for centuries.
Posted on 8/19/19 at 1:28 pm to Manzielathon
quote:
lmao if this is what you have to fall back on
You mean English?
Posted on 8/19/19 at 1:30 pm to Flats
Just admit you’re wrong for leaping to conclusions and not actually reading what I said.
Posted on 8/19/19 at 1:41 pm to Manzielathon
I read what you actually said. To make your case you insist (after an edit) that I should pretend that you said something else.
Posted on 8/19/19 at 1:51 pm to Flats
Go back to the original comment you responded to. Read it word for word.
Do you actually disagree with anything I said?
You are extrapolating that comment into me saying that the actions of extremists from each group in the modern day are identical.
I never said that.
Do you deny that there are Jewish and Christian extremists in the modern day that resort to acts of violence to advance their beliefs on others?
Yes or no?
The answer is clearly yes and that is my main point.
Then, If you actually read my comments throughout the thread I drop multiple references to events that can help explain the development of religious extremism from the three religions in a modern day context.
There are SO many similarities in the theological disagreements, and the lengths people will go to to advance their beliefs. between Sunni - Shia and Protestant - Catholic divisions that you have to go out of your way to pretend like you don’t understand that.
Within Sunni Islam alone their are 4 mainstream interpretations / schools of thought and jurisprudence. There are multiple more schools with minor followings. They don’t all get along.
I’m confident you don’t know the difference between Seveners and Twelvers. You have no idea about Hanbali or Maliki schools, etc. You couldn’t even tell me what Alawiis or Druze even believe without googling it first.
And yet you are somehow the arbiter on the root causes, motivations, and practices for Islamic extremism in the modern day?
Do you actually disagree with anything I said?
You are extrapolating that comment into me saying that the actions of extremists from each group in the modern day are identical.
I never said that.
Do you deny that there are Jewish and Christian extremists in the modern day that resort to acts of violence to advance their beliefs on others?
Yes or no?
The answer is clearly yes and that is my main point.
Then, If you actually read my comments throughout the thread I drop multiple references to events that can help explain the development of religious extremism from the three religions in a modern day context.
There are SO many similarities in the theological disagreements, and the lengths people will go to to advance their beliefs. between Sunni - Shia and Protestant - Catholic divisions that you have to go out of your way to pretend like you don’t understand that.
Within Sunni Islam alone their are 4 mainstream interpretations / schools of thought and jurisprudence. There are multiple more schools with minor followings. They don’t all get along.
I’m confident you don’t know the difference between Seveners and Twelvers. You have no idea about Hanbali or Maliki schools, etc. You couldn’t even tell me what Alawiis or Druze even believe without googling it first.
And yet you are somehow the arbiter on the root causes, motivations, and practices for Islamic extremism in the modern day?
This post was edited on 8/19/19 at 1:58 pm
Posted on 8/19/19 at 2:19 pm to Manzielathon
quote:
Go back to the original comment you responded to. Read it word for word.
Do you actually disagree with anything I said?
Yes, the part where you said this.
quote:
Islam is not inherently different from Christianity or Judaism when it comes to diversity of theological opinions and perspectives, or the extremism that inhabits that spectrum.
Go back and read my original response. I agreed with you on all points but the extremism. It is (present tense again) inherently different when it comes to extremism. I'm not claiming special knowledge about WHY the extremism exists; that's another strawman. But I can sure as hell observe that it does exist.
I'm not the arbiter of anything and I have no doubt you no more about the religion than I do; my time there wasn't exactly conducive to deep discussions about the various sects. If you want to wave your johnson and pound the table and insist you're an expert, I'm not disagreeing with you. You actually agree with my claim; we all know Islamic extremism is in a league of its own when it comes to the Abrahamic religions (probably all religions). You apparently worded your claim poorly and got mad because I read it as written.
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