re: So does any leftist on this board honestly believe Ukraine can win the war?

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The difference, of course, is that Putin is not asking for hundreds of billions of dollars from

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This is true, and if you just want to get out because you don’t want to spend any more money, then that’s fine.

All I’m saying is don’t pretend it’s about peace and as if Z is the war monger here when he’s trying to defend his people from a country that’s already said they have no intent on stopping.

Not true. Putin has already shown he’s ready for negotiations. Russian Foreign Minister Lavrov just met with the United States representatives a few weeks ago.

Russia also stated they want permanent peace, not just a break in the fighting to allow Ukraine to recover and fight again.

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But not Russia right?

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Who is Russia getting a shitpile of money from?

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Because, Zelensky keeps saying he’s ready to negotiate, then backs out. Russia considers Zelensky illegitimate. Once he steps down, negotiations can begin seriously.

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So Putin isn’t ready for peace then. Sounds like he just wants war, death, and destruction, in making such ridiculous demands. Why should we listen to the Russian demands though? Why are they the ones who get to dictate what happens here?

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Not true. Putin has already shown he’s ready for negotiations. Russian Foreign Minister Lavrov just met with the United States representatives a few weeks ago.

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Well then why the hell doesn’t he come to the negotiating table? Zelensky has met with Trump numerous times. Why doesn’t Putin meet with Trump, or US representatives directly? That does not prove that you want peace. Anyone who seriously wants peace, would be busting arse to meet with people. Vladimir Putin is far from that. He will only talk when his demands are met are completely ridiculous as well. To make a deal, you have to give something up. We’ve yet to hear about any concessions Russia wants to make. All they list are demands.

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Russia also stated they want permanent peace, not just a break in the fighting to allow Ukraine to recover and fight again.

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You could easily argue that Ukraine feels the same way about Russia. So who has the more valid point? Russia or Ukraine?

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They’ve repeatedly negotiated and came to ceasefire agreements that Russia has broken. The latest was in 2019 during Trumps time in office, which proves the point that a “cease fire” without security guarantees is pointless.

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Their narrative is that Ukraine must listen and abide by all Russian demands, or they don’t want peace, and are a bunch of warmongers. It’s ridiculous.

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And I think people would take yall more seriously if you’d admit that Zelensky has motives that are not limited to simply “saving his country.” The moment the fighting stops in any measurable fashion, his position leading the country is on the clock. He likely doesn’t last a year from that time.

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What is all of this based on? All recent polling done has shown him doing quite well.

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What is all of this based on? All recent polling done has shown him doing quite well.

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Not to mention he’s already said he would be glad to resign if they were allowed to join NATO (I.e. security guaranty).

The whole “he wants to keep the war going to so he can keep making millions” isn’t based off of anything other than a random MAGA social media post. These same people also comment on how he doesn’t own suits (damn that millionaire is living it up) it’s just so laughable.

This Oval Office thing only made his biggest rivals (zaluzhnyi and poroschenko) get behind him and support him.

And if they believe Ukraine can win, why haven’t they after 3 yrs? Are they in a better position to do it now than before?