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Message
1
Posted on 4/17/14 at 1:04 pm to Oenophile Brah
quote:NSA broke privacy rules
The National Security Agency has broken privacy rules or overstepped its legal authority thousands of times each year since Congress granted the agency broad new powers in 2008, according to an internal audit and other top-secret documents.
You know, a big problem I have with all of this is the insidious nature of these laws presumably passed "to protect us" from these great harms. For instance, The Patriot Act. President Obama campaigned against the Patriot Act that gave the Government broad surveillance powers. Then in 2011, he signed a 2 year extension of the Patriot Act. But he wasn't done yet. In 2012, he signed the NDAA which, among other things, permits the military to detain individuals indefinitely without trial.
These things don't pass the sniff test with me. I'm not breaking any laws that I can think of, but I don't like the fact that my privacy is being encroached upon "for my safety" or the fact that it is perfectly lawful for the military to detain individuals indefinitely. Just doesn't seem like the same America I grew up in.
Posted on 4/17/14 at 1:09 pm to novabill
quote:
Russia is our enemy? Since when?
1946
Posted on 4/17/14 at 1:11 pm to wilfont
quote:
If he has a vendetta or agenda I think its directed at an out of control government.
That edited line is not an accurate representation of what I wrote.
Posted on 4/17/14 at 1:12 pm to Clete Purcel
From the link.
All were self reported.
This is a program that will require fine-tuning and needs strict oversight to protect our privacy.
quote:
The NSA audit obtained by The Post, dated May 2012, counted 2,776 incidents in the preceding 12 months of unauthorized collection, storage, access to or distribution of legally protected communications. Most were unintended. Many involved failures of due diligence or violations of standard operating procedure. The most serious incidents included a violation of a court order and unauthorized use of data about more than 3,000 Americans and green-card holders.
All were self reported.
This is a program that will require fine-tuning and needs strict oversight to protect our privacy.
Posted on 4/17/14 at 1:13 pm to DanTiger
quote:
1946
Link?
Posted on 4/17/14 at 1:16 pm to DanTiger
quote:
That edited line is not an accurate representation of what I wrote.
quote:
This is obviously a vendetta he has against the U.S
Seriously? My answer doesn't change.
Posted on 4/17/14 at 1:21 pm to Oenophile Brah
quote:The nation can't "discuss" if the government is overreaching if the govt keeps it a secret from them. I mean, ya get that, right?
Prudent steps, and Mr. Snowden isn't the arbitor for the nations security. There were better methods to have a national discussion
quote:His being naive doesn't concern me. The inability of Americans to conceive how easily the power being exercised can be abused is the naivety that concerns me. Hell, I consider the likelihood that this stuff hasn't already been improperly used to be roughly nil.
His actions with Putin show his naivety in world affairs.
Posted on 4/17/14 at 1:21 pm to Oenophile Brah
Also from the link:
Unintended or not, I think our Freedoms afforded us by the Fourth Amendment have been infringed upon. Frankly, I don't trust our government. They play fast and loose with rules and laws and are secretive, parsing words and withholding documents requested under the FOIA. And the march continues... I'm sure the next President will double down on the Patriot Act and NDAA and we'll sit like frogs in a slowly boiling pot while our freedoms are slowly stripped away. Both Parties are guilty of this. Who's going to ever change things if the sunlight never shines on their deeds?
quote:
James R. Clapper Jr., the director of national intelligence, has acknowledged that the court found the NSA in breach of the Fourth Amendment, which prohibits unreasonable searches and seizures, but the Obama administration has fought a Freedom of Information lawsuit that seeks the opinion.
Generally, the NSA reveals nothing in public about its errors and infractions. The unclassified versions of the administration’s semiannual reports to Congress feature blacked-out pages under the headline “Statistical Data Relating to Compliance Incidents.”
Unintended or not, I think our Freedoms afforded us by the Fourth Amendment have been infringed upon. Frankly, I don't trust our government. They play fast and loose with rules and laws and are secretive, parsing words and withholding documents requested under the FOIA. And the march continues... I'm sure the next President will double down on the Patriot Act and NDAA and we'll sit like frogs in a slowly boiling pot while our freedoms are slowly stripped away. Both Parties are guilty of this. Who's going to ever change things if the sunlight never shines on their deeds?
Posted on 4/17/14 at 1:22 pm to heartbreakTiger
quote:The former USSR scoffs at the "vast borders" assertion. Just sayin.
this is true but you learn from history and the tactics they used to easily round people up. Also I'm not sure how well that would work in the US considering how vast our borders are. It might not be easy if you wait to the actual collapse but if you start to jump before hand then it wouldn't be so bad.
Posted on 4/17/14 at 1:22 pm to novabill
quote:
Link?
I truly hope you are joking. I must assume you are trying to imply that Russia/The Soviet Union was not an enemy of the United States IN YOUR OPINION but that does not change the views of our government, our military, and the vast majority of our citizens. Where are the vast majority of our ICBM missles currently pointed?
Posted on 4/17/14 at 1:28 pm to Clete Purcel
quote:
Unintended or not, I think our Freedoms afforded us by the Fourth Amendment have been infringed upon.
Agreed
quote:
Frankly, I don't trust our government. They play fast and loose with rules and laws and are secretive, parsing words and withholding documents requested under the FOIA.
Agreed
quote:
I'm sure the next President will double down on the Patriot Act and NDAA and we'll sit like frogs in a slowly boiling pot while our freedoms are slowly stripped away.
I hope you are wrong and you very well could be but government rarely relinquishes once it has it. Only time will tell.
quote:
Who's going to ever change things if the sunlight never shines on their deeds?
Rand Paul
With all of that being said Snowden still hasn't helped the United States or anyone that resides in this country one iota by appearing in a Russian propaganda piece.
Posted on 4/17/14 at 1:33 pm to DanTiger
quote:
With all of that being said Snowden still hasn't helped the United States or anyone that resides in this country one iota by appearing in a Russian propaganda piece.
I disagree. We're here talking about government intrusion and that conversation is taking place all over the country today because of Snowden's tete-a-tete with putin.
Posted on 4/17/14 at 1:37 pm to DanTiger
quote:
With all of that being said Snowden still hasn't helped the United States or anyone that resides in this country one iota by appearing in a Russian propaganda piece.
Meh, slightly disagree... Him being a douchebag has brought it to the forefront again. The more he stays in the limelight, the more the overarching NSA shenanigans stays in peoples minds.
Posted on 4/17/14 at 1:38 pm to ShortyRob
quote:
The nation can't "discuss" if the government is overreaching if the govt keeps it a secret from them. I mean, ya get that, right?
Of course, it's incumbent on the designers, along with those with knowledge of these activities to use their judgment. The government has several groups that were aware of these programs. You're telling me in this age of hyper partisonship, not a single person (outside of Snowden) had a dissenting opinion?
Posted on 4/17/14 at 1:44 pm to Oenophile Brah
quote:LOL.
All were self reported. This is a program that will require fine-tuning and needs strict oversight to protect our privacy.
You trusting soul you.
Posted on 4/17/14 at 1:44 pm to DanTiger
Do we maintain a list of enemies somewhere that I can reference or is it simply a matter of opinion?
Posted on 4/17/14 at 1:46 pm to novabill
quote:
Do we maintain a list of enemies somewhere that I can reference or is it simply a matter of opinion?
You are insufferable. Troll elsewhere!
Posted on 4/17/14 at 1:49 pm to DanTiger
quote:
Who's going to ever change things if the sunlight never shines on their deeds?
Rand Paul With all of that being said Snowden still hasn't helped the United States or anyone that resides in this country one iota by appearing in a Russian propaganda piece.
I'll give you a better answer. NO ONE is going to change it. I think we are well past the tipping point.
All the people who preach the whole "if you've done nothing wrong" crap have literally no imagination. The percentage of people who can pass the "we know everyone you've ever spoken to, when you spoke to them, every website you've ever visited, ever every every test" is exceedingly tiny.
I suspect that if I had that information about everyone on this board, I could ruin the lives of almost all of them or at least have them scared enough about what I know to keep them from being a real problem.
Even if Rand is a saint, he is only one guy and I can guarantee you that the percentage of congressman who can pass that test is smaller than in the general population.
The NSA will only get more expansive and the information they acquire will only get abused more and more. That is a one way graph right there.
Posted on 4/17/14 at 1:51 pm to DanTiger
quote:
I truly hope you are joking. I must assume you are trying to imply that Russia/The Soviet Union was not an enemy of the United States IN YOUR OPINION but that does not change the views of our government, our military, and the vast majority of our citizens. Where are the vast majority of our ICBM missles currently pointed?
The USSR and the current Russian state are two very different animals. The Russians are clearly a rival power but to consider them outright enemies as if there is no difference between the current Russian state and the Soviet Union is rather simplistic and inaccurate.
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