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Started By
Message
re: Sky Screamers Rejoice! Senate votes to repeal the repeal of Net Neutrality
Posted on 5/17/18 at 11:02 am to kingbob
Posted on 5/17/18 at 11:02 am to kingbob
quote:
How is it not true?
You said Americans have no choice. It's false. 20% of Americans use their phones instead of broadband or any other wired connection. Most Americans have access to multiple DSL connections and above.
quote:
At the 10Mbps/1Mbps threshold—which captures slower DSL technology in addition to cable and fiber—about 90 percent of census blocks have at least two providers.
LINK
Most of my life I've used sub 25mbps internet and operated multiple computers and/or TV's and it worked perfectly. IT was cheaper than broadband and games, tv and computers work just fine. It's a viable option for most consumers.
2
Posted on 5/17/18 at 11:03 am to ShortyRob
quote:
It's funny.
I fully expect the liberal arguments.
They're really just saying the same shite they said about Walmart at some point in the past..........Amazon.........and a hundred other "gee govt, save us" times.
I do not understand how or in what way you keep comparing walmart and amazon to an ISP. And everytime i ask you to explain it to me you refuse to do so.
Posted on 5/17/18 at 11:03 am to ShortyRob
quote:
He seemed to think the fact those companies controlled 90% plus of the market was compelling information.
The issue is that they control 90% of the market AND have geographic monopolies. The fewer firms which control the most marketshare, the greater their ability to collude rather than compete.
The fewer competitors in each individual market, the less consumer leverage exists.
For example, there are literally hundreds of individual electricity utilities in this nation, but each one has largely a geographic monopoly. Thus, while consumers have no choice in which one they get to use, the utilities themselves have little ability to collude and all move in sequence on a given policy absent a government policy motivating them to do so. The government has all kinds of consumer protections to keep them from abusing their captive markets.
Cars have very few firms (about a dozen), but no true geographic monopolies. There's always at least 6 makers in every market, large or small. Because these companies have to compete everywhere, the consumers have a lot of leverage. There is some opportunity to collude, but there is still more firms and more consumer leverage.
ISP's do not fight over territory. They each collude to give each other their own space which they rule supreme and have no real competition. They are few enough in number to collude. There is no consumer protection like in the case of electricity and water companies to keep them from straight up f&%king their captive customers.
It is not even remotely the same issue.
Posted on 5/17/18 at 11:03 am to Breesus
quote:My "no" was meant to say "no, I was referring to his 90% problem"
lol yes
I lacked clarity in my response.
Posted on 5/17/18 at 11:03 am to kingbob
quote:
Why should broadband internet be regulated differently than landline telephone?
Posted on 5/17/18 at 11:04 am to Breesus
quote:
This competition literally, factually, and inarguabley does not exist in the high speed ISP world.
But this is literally, factually, false.
You can argue there isn't as much as you think there should be, but quite obviously, there IS competition.
Posted on 5/17/18 at 11:04 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
It's false. 20% of Americans use their phones instead of broadband or any other wired connection. Most Americans have access to multiple DSL connections and above.
Who are 2 of the 6 largest broadband providers? AT&T and Verizon. Which 2 wireless companies control over 70% of all wireless data usage? Verizon and AT&T. Your argument has no merit.
Posted on 5/17/18 at 11:04 am to Breesus
quote:
I do not understand how or in what way you keep comparing walmart and amazon to an ISP. And everytime i ask you to explain it to me you refuse to do so.
The arguments for why you need to regulate it are largely based on the same concepts.
And, they're just as wrong.
Posted on 5/17/18 at 11:05 am to ShortyRob
quote:
The arguments for why you need to regulate it are largely based on the same concepts.
That not an explanation of the comparison. you again refused to explain your position.
Is it because you are too ignorant to do so?
Posted on 5/17/18 at 11:06 am to ShortyRob
I can only assume that people do not understand my response to FT posting
quote:and me saying
If you like the internet as it is, you like net neutrality.
quote:
Ladies and gentlemen of the thread.
I want you all to know that I 100% agree with the above statement. It is an absolutely true statement.
Which is why I oppose it.
Posted on 5/17/18 at 11:07 am to ShortyRob
quote:
But this is literally, factually, false.
No. It is not.
quote:
You can argue there isn't as much as you think there should be, but quite obviously, there IS competition.
No. There is not. some shitty dsl connection is not a competitor to high speed internet. In the same way that a bicycle is not a competitor to a car.
Posted on 5/17/18 at 11:07 am to kingbob
quote:
Who are 2 of the 6 largest broadband providers? AT&T and Verizon. Which 2 wireless companies control over 70% of all wireless data usage? Verizon and AT&T. Your argument has no merit.
I've got a choice of 5 different wireless providers
Posted on 5/17/18 at 11:07 am to kingbob
quote:Yes, they are definitely big dogs.
The issue is that they control 90% of the market AND have geographic monopolies. The fewer firms which control the most marketshare, the greater their ability to collude rather than compete.
quote:Yes. This is called a market. Sometimes, markets shift to the advantage of the customer, sometimes to the advantage of the seller. In fact, that's basically ECON 101.
The fewer competitors in each individual market, the less consumer leverage exists.
quote:Don't confuse scale for sameness or difference.
It is not even remotely the same issue.
Posted on 5/17/18 at 11:09 am to Breesus
quote:
That not an explanation of the comparison. you again refused to explain your position.
My position is simple. The problem isn't a problem. It's merely a temporary manifestation that, over time, will take care of itself absent the government fricking it up.
In other words, basically like 100% of the times this type conversation has taken place before in the history of ever.
quote:Now ya know.........I think I've been pretty straight in this thread. So, perhaps you can rephrase.
Is it because you are too ignorant to do so?
Posted on 5/17/18 at 11:10 am to Breesus
quote:You must have one odd definition of the word competition then. It is categorically false to say there is NO competition.
But this is literally, factually, false.
No. It is not.
quote:OIC
No. There is not. some shitty dsl connection is not a competitor to high speed internet. In the same way that a bicycle is not a competitor to a car.
Yep. We have another one who doesn't know what the word competition means in terms of markets.
Oh. And a bicycle IS a competitor to a car.
Sheesh.
Did ANY of your frickers take even ONE econ class?
This post was edited on 5/17/18 at 11:11 am
Posted on 5/17/18 at 11:10 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
I've got a choice of 5 different wireless providers
There are a lot of "mini" providers that are actually just using the same networks as the larger brands. They are merely subsidiaries, and not true competitors.
T-mobile just announced a merger with Sprint. AT&T and Verizon control 70% of the market. Sprint and T-Mobile combined have about 29%. ALL OTHER WIRELESS PROVIDERS COMBINED have less than 1% of the market!
LINK
Posted on 5/17/18 at 11:11 am to Breesus
quote:
There is not. some shitty dsl connection is not a competitor to high speed internet.
Posted on 5/17/18 at 11:11 am to Volvagia
quote:I don't actually care about what the ISP businesses want in terms of having cake and eat it to. I'm for less regulation of that market, period. Comcast sucks. I don't want to defend Comcast. I don't even care about them specifically in terms of this argument. I want to see smaller companies (or bigger ones; I don't care) come in and offer internet access that rivals Comcast. The hope is that when the ISP monopolies and oligopolies are challenged, the big, bad ISPs will be forced to play ball even better than they have been (they haven't exactly been severely abusive and restrictive with the internet over the years). Competition is the key here and additional regulation by the government will more than likely kill competition.
Volvagia
Posted on 5/17/18 at 11:11 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:He's gonna shite his pants that I pointed out a bicycle IS a competitor to a car.
RogerTheShrubber
Posted on 5/17/18 at 11:12 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Most of my life I've used sub 25mbps internet and operated multiple computers and/or TV's and it worked perfectly. IT was cheaper than broadband and games, tv and computers work just fine. It's a viable option for most consumers.
This sums up what I think about you pretty well.
It doesn't effect me, so why think about the bigger picture?
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