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Started By
Message
re: Science, Race, Homosexuality, Abortion, and Religion
Posted on 2/10/14 at 12:59 pm to Zach
Posted on 2/10/14 at 12:59 pm to Zach
quote:
I know more about dog breeds than you will ever learn in your life. There is no difference between breeding a species and a race evolving in the same species by space and time.
When you breed a dog you plan the mating taking away one of the fundamental laws of population genetics. That law is that mating is random in a wild population. The champion bloodline male black lab will have breed an in heat german second if he gets the chance.
1
Posted on 2/10/14 at 1:00 pm to Zach
Applying this to humans is without merit. No one doubts that there are different characteristics between races that have bred together over time. That is not what I said. I said that there is no genetic difference between what we call "races" of people. "Race" is not a scientific designation but a social construct based on appearance and designations put forward by culture.
I have a lot more substance on my side of the argument than you have in your comparison between humans and dogs.
I have a lot more substance on my side of the argument than you have in your comparison between humans and dogs.
Posted on 2/10/14 at 1:15 pm to heatom2
quote:
Just because it is shown to be epigenetic doesn't mean it is a defect that needs to be fixed. I guess it depends on whether or not you believe being gay is a problem.
Jeez, we'd have parents making their children take a drug so that they are heterosexual without having to have the childs consent.
No sir, I don't like it.
then why are we spending research $$ to find out why ppl are gay. We should be spending that money and resources for finding cures to actual diseases.
Posted on 2/10/14 at 1:16 pm to AlaTiger
quote:
Race" is not a scientific designation but a social construct based on appearance and designations put forward by culture.
Posted on 2/10/14 at 1:16 pm to AlaTiger
quote:
"Race" is not a scientific designation but a social construct based on appearance and designations put forward by culture.
You correct that the term "race" is not a scientific designation. However, the phenotype expressed genetically that separates the "races" is certainly based in science. To that point, the genes that determine these phenotypes of skin pigment and hair determine many other characteristics too.
There have been studies performed that show, by global map, average IQs across the globe for both native inhabitants and current inhabitants.
These IQ maps are pretty interesting.
Since homosexuality has a genetic link, as does heterosexuality I would assume, as does pedophilia, it would be interesting to see similar associative global maps as well.
Religion and abortion seem to be more aligned with geography and culture.
Posted on 2/10/14 at 1:21 pm to AlaTiger
Uhm, there is very much so a genetic basis for race. Whether or not one conforms to the stereotypical social constructs associated with that race is largely not a product of genetics (though some are like black people having trouble swimming due to their skeletal structure or native americans being alcoholics due to their bodies' not metabolizing alcohol the same) but a product of environment.
Posted on 2/10/14 at 1:21 pm to willthezombie
quote:
then why are we spending research $$ to find out why ppl are gay. We should be spending that money and resources for finding cures to actual diseases.
Because it seems to be a talking point for those who are anti-gay rights that it is a choice. If it can be proven to be a trait that you are born with, this talking point would become moot.
I know I can't choose to be attracted to another male, I have no say in the matter.
Posted on 2/10/14 at 1:22 pm to DeltaDoc
quote:
Since homosexuality has a genetic link, as does heterosexuality I would assume, as does pedophilia, it would be interesting to see similar associative global maps as well.
A genetic link to homosexuality has not been found. There is no gay gene that has been found to this date.
Posted on 2/10/14 at 1:26 pm to heatom2
quote:
Because it seems to be a talking point for those who are anti-gay rights that it is a choice. If it can be proven to be a trait that you are born with, this talking point would become moot.
well I hate the term choice in the talking points because it is not a simple choice like hey I think I will stick my penis in a man's butt instead of a woman's vagina.
quote:
know I can't choose to be attracted to another male, I have no say in the matter.
How do you know? We are only aware of about 10% of what we are actually thinking. We aren't aware that our brains are telling us to breath or monitoring our heart rates but we are.
Posted on 2/10/14 at 1:27 pm to willthezombie
quote:
well I hate the term choice in the talking points because it is not a simple choice like hey I think I will stick my penis in a man's butt instead of a woman's vagina.
I can agree with you here.
quote:
How do you know? We are only aware of about 10% of what we are actually thinking. We aren't aware that our brains are telling us to breath or monitoring our heart rates but we are.
Well if I didn't know, it wouldn't be a concious choice.
Posted on 2/10/14 at 1:37 pm to heatom2
quote:
Well if I didn't know, it wouldn't be a concious choice
That is why I said I hate the term choice. I don't care if someone is having gay sex as long as it is consensual. The argument that gay ppl are born that way has no more scientific basis than that the choose to be (once I hate the term but I can't think of another term right).
I wish we were spending our public research dollars funding more research for cures like CF or AIDs or cancer. Politics howerver wants us to find out why Adam is freaking Steve instead of Eve. End Rant
Posted on 2/10/14 at 1:39 pm to AlaTiger
quote:That's not really true, since groups of humans can have separate DNA markers. I would say that race is an insignificant impactor of our humanity except for the power we give it socially. Race as a defining characteristic of humanity is a social construct.
There is no genetic, DNA, or scientific basis for "Race."
quote:that just isn't true. Genetic or in-utero causes have the most belief among scientists. Further, there is no known correlation of any parental or social systems to homosexuality/trans/queer behavior.
There is no genetic, DNA, or scientific basis for homosexual identities being something inborn
quote:Not as completely as you would like apparently.
It seems like we hold the claims of religion to one standard while accepting spurious claims on other issues that are contradicted by science completely.
Posted on 2/10/14 at 1:39 pm to willthezombie
quote:
I wish we were spending our public research dollars funding more research for cures like CF or AIDs or cancer. Politics howerver wants us to find out why Adam is freaking Steve instead of Eve. End Rant
Serious question, is this research being publicly or privately funded? Perhaps both? I don't know, but I'll try to find out when I'm not posting from work.
Posted on 2/10/14 at 1:40 pm to AlaTiger
God separated men and confused their languages on purpose, because, as you see since the computer/ technology/ communications/ one world associations have come into being in the last 60 years our culture has coarsened and evil is now called good & good is called evil.
Don't bre surprised at this world, it will get worse and worse as man tries to become his own God while denying a true God exists.
Color is only flesh pigmentation, an evil heart is of the spirit of darkness.
Don't bre surprised at this world, it will get worse and worse as man tries to become his own God while denying a true God exists.
Color is only flesh pigmentation, an evil heart is of the spirit of darkness.
Posted on 2/10/14 at 1:42 pm to willthezombie
quote:Then you are saying that you personally have to make a conscious choice to NOT feel an attraction to a man.
The argument that gay ppl are born that way has no more scientific basis than that the choose to be
This post was edited on 2/10/14 at 1:53 pm
Posted on 2/10/14 at 1:44 pm to heatom2
Well the study about homosexuality being epigenetic was done by the National Institute for Mathematical and Biological Synthesis. Which is funded by the National Science foundation, US department of Homeland Security, USDA, and the university of tennesse.
study
link
ETA: so I would assume this is public research dollars.
ETAA: the authors worked at cal and a university in Sweden. So this was definitely a public tax dollars and public researchers doing this study.
study
link
ETA: so I would assume this is public research dollars.
ETAA: the authors worked at cal and a university in Sweden. So this was definitely a public tax dollars and public researchers doing this study.
This post was edited on 2/10/14 at 2:03 pm
Posted on 2/10/14 at 2:05 pm to AlaTiger
quote:
everything else is a social or cultural construct.
Are you seriously claiming social and cultural constructs are without value?
Posted on 2/10/14 at 2:08 pm to AlaTiger
quote:
Look, there is no question here on this issue. Look it up. Any distinction in races for medical/health issues are attributable to localization of people together in reproduction, not because of any real genetic differences.
Posted on 2/10/14 at 2:16 pm to CarrolltonTiger
quote:
Are you seriously claiming social and cultural constructs are without value?
No, I am saying that they are not fixed or absolute or based in any reality other than the one that we assign to it.
There is nothing "real" about it except for how we perceive that reality to be. Therefore, these constructs should not be a "control" upon which we base truth.
We are altering society completely on the basis of appearances and behaviors, not on the basis of scientific fact.
Posted on 2/10/14 at 2:18 pm to S.E.C. Crazy
First we let women have all of these equal rights.
Then the colored's wanted them too.
Now it's these damned queers, You know god hates queers so much. It's in the bible that we are supposed to stone them.
Next they will be clamoring for equal rights for these damn dirty foreigners.
Then the colored's wanted them too.
Now it's these damned queers, You know god hates queers so much. It's in the bible that we are supposed to stone them.
Next they will be clamoring for equal rights for these damn dirty foreigners.
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