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re: Robert’s insist that tariffs are a tax on the American people, and a tax needs to come

Posted on 11/6/25 at 5:23 pm to
Posted by RogerTheShrubber
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
297982 posts
Posted on 11/6/25 at 5:23 pm to
quote:

Are you a victim?


No,


Then youre not being taken advantage of.


Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
467556 posts
Posted on 11/6/25 at 5:27 pm to
quote:

Please detail the cases in which you'd argue the Executive Branch was more authorized to issue tariffs against "enemies" during a world war than those covered by the IEEPA.

The ones where the statute includes the word "tariff" in the text
Posted by NC_Tigah
Make Orwell Fiction Again
Member since Sep 2003
135769 posts
Posted on 11/6/25 at 5:30 pm to
quote:

You're choosing selections and misattributing summaries of specific lines of question
I am quoting the BROAD CONSENSUS of your field's colleagues.

Admittedly, it is a surprising take based on my assumptions.
I would expect the justices will eventually rule base on the "emergency" categorization.

But if not, and if SCOTUS wants to maintain any credibility whatsoever, the government wins this case.
Posted by NC_Tigah
Make Orwell Fiction Again
Member since Sep 2003
135769 posts
Posted on 11/6/25 at 5:35 pm to
quote:

The ones where the statute includes the word "tariff" in the text
Not the ones that include far far far more all encompassing terminology?

This has got to be giving you a belly ache.
How did you snare yourself this way?
Come on SFP.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
467556 posts
Posted on 11/6/25 at 5:36 pm to
quote:

I am quoting the BROAD CONSENSUS of your field's colleagues.


And I literally gave you the appellate case discussing the issue before the court.

I even bolded and underlined it for you

quote:

But if not, and if SCOTUS wants to maintain any credibility whatsoever, the government wins this case.

You need to read up on the major questions doctrine and read case law, especially the Biden student loan case and you will realize dismissive framing is a little bit absurd
This post was edited on 11/6/25 at 5:37 pm
Posted by NC_Tigah
Make Orwell Fiction Again
Member since Sep 2003
135769 posts
Posted on 11/6/25 at 5:51 pm to
quote:

You need to read up on the major questions doctrine


That might be good advice .....

..... had Congress not designated the right of the EB to "regulate" trade with tariffs 3yrs earlier, and then used virtually IDENTICAL "regulate" language three years later in the legislation you are addressing.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
467556 posts
Posted on 11/6/25 at 6:15 pm to
quote:

had Congress not designated the right of the EB to "regulate" trade with tariffs 3yrs earlier, and then used virtually IDENTICAL "regulate" language three years later in the legislation you are addressing.


Which other statute(s) are you referencing ?I'll check the language
Posted by NC_Tigah
Make Orwell Fiction Again
Member since Sep 2003
135769 posts
Posted on 11/6/25 at 6:34 pm to
quote:

Which other statute(s) are you referencing ?I'll check the language
[/quote]The question was to you first.
Which other foreign trade statutes did not encompass the EB's ability to regulate trade?
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
467556 posts
Posted on 11/6/25 at 6:34 pm to
The specific statute matters b/c the text of the statute matters. Which one, so I can look up the text
Posted by NC_Tigah
Make Orwell Fiction Again
Member since Sep 2003
135769 posts
Posted on 11/6/25 at 6:57 pm to
quote:

so I can look up the text

Have you done that in any instance here?
Because as far as I can recall, everytime I quoted text, you attempted quoting interpretations rather than addressing the text itself.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
467556 posts
Posted on 11/6/25 at 7:00 pm to
quote:

Have you done that in any instance here?

Yes.

With the IEEPA and the HEROES Act.

I didn't with the ACA but I posted text from the case, IIRC

quote:

Because as far as I can recall, everytime I quoted text, you attempted quoting interpretations rather than addressing the text itself.

Did you ever quote text from the IEEPA using the word "tariff"?

If not, then it's just an interpretation of the text.

Now, I want to look up your other statutes to see if they use "tariff". Please list them so I can.
Posted by NC_Tigah
Make Orwell Fiction Again
Member since Sep 2003
135769 posts
Posted on 11/6/25 at 7:11 pm to
quote:

d you ever quote text from the IEEPA using the word "tariff"?
Regulation 100% covers it, a
s every serious legal analyst agrees.

Again, wtf are you doing? Seriously?
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
467556 posts
Posted on 11/6/25 at 7:13 pm to
quote:

Regulation 100% covers it

Maybe, maybe not.

Let's see the comparison statutes to judge.

quote:

s every serious legal analyst agrees.


Every? No. Dude c'mon.

Or are you going to focus on "serious" to pivot?

This is a hotly debated issue among lawyers. If it wasn't, it wouldn't have made it this far
This post was edited on 11/6/25 at 7:14 pm
Posted by FlySaint
FL Panhandle
Member since May 2018
2357 posts
Posted on 11/6/25 at 7:23 pm to
So what part of the IRS processes all these tariffs ?
Posted by N.O. via West-Cal
New Orleans
Member since Aug 2004
7688 posts
Posted on 11/6/25 at 7:45 pm to
“Each of these POTUSes unilaterally imposed tariffs in the last century:”

Of course, they did and all were at least ostensibly pursuant to authority granted by Congress. In this case, Trump is relying on IEEPA and I see no way Trump’s tariffs will pass muster under this law. No emergency and arguably no authority to levy a tariff (as opposed to other measures which are referenced in the law).
Posted by N.O. via West-Cal
New Orleans
Member since Aug 2004
7688 posts
Posted on 11/6/25 at 7:50 pm to
“A tax on the American people is incorrect. We are not being taxed. It’s a price increase on foreign goods.”

A tariff is a tax on imports and clearly within congressional authority. The issue at hand has nothing to do with whether the tariffs are good or bad or whether they are paid by the importer or ultimately consumers—that’s a question for economists. This is about whether the executive has the power to levy them in the manner the administration did.
Posted by hogcard1964
Alabama
Member since Jan 2017
17720 posts
Posted on 11/6/25 at 7:54 pm to
It's actually very simple.
Posted by goatmilker
Castle Anthrax
Member since Feb 2009
74508 posts
Posted on 11/6/25 at 8:10 pm to
Maybe maybe not is a poor man's argument.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
467556 posts
Posted on 11/6/25 at 8:21 pm to
It's more me saying "yes, that is an argument"
Posted by NC_Tigah
Make Orwell Fiction Again
Member since Sep 2003
135769 posts
Posted on 11/7/25 at 4:37 am to
quote:

Trump is relying on IEEPA and I see no way Trump’s tariffs will pass muster under this law. No emergency and arguably no authority to levy a tariff (as opposed to other measures which are referenced in the law).

quote:

But Barrett was also skeptical at times of the challengers’ arguments. Along with Justice Brett Kavanaugh, she pressed Benjamin Gutman, the solicitor general of Oregon, who represented the group of 12 states, about whether IEEPA on the one hand could give the president very broad powers – for example, allowing him to shut down all trade with another country – but on the other would not allow him to take the much smaller step, in her view, of imposing tariffs. Such a paradox, Kavanaugh suggested, created an “odd donut hole” in IEEPA.
...

Justice Samuel Alito also seemed sympathetic to the administration’s arguments, telling Katyal that statutes that confer emergency powers are often phrased quite broadly.
...

And much like Barrett and Kavanaugh, Alito pressed Katyal about how IEEPA would operate in an emergency, describing a situation in which there is “an imminent threat of war with a very powerful enemy whose economy was heavily dependent on U.S. trade. Could a President under this provision impose a tariff as a way of trying to stave off that war, or would you say no, the President lacks that power under this” law? Alito appeared to believe that the president would have that power.

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