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Message
re: Revisiting the 2008 housing crash
Posted on 6/18/19 at 6:48 am to SoulGlo
Posted on 6/18/19 at 6:48 am to SoulGlo
quote:
Bush was a fricking disaster, but was absolutely right on this. He warned of the problem multiple times years in advance but backed down like a pussy.
How did he "back down"? He CONTINUALLY pressed Congress to help him act on reforming GSE's
He couldn't have taken unilateral acrion to reform these agencies.
quote:
September: Then-House Financial Services Committee Ranking Member Barney Frank (D-MA) strongly disagrees with the Administration's assessment, saying "these two entities – Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac – are not facing any kind of financial crisis … The more people exaggerate these problems, the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing." (Stephen Labaton, "New Agency Proposed To Oversee Freddie Mac And Fannie Mae," The New York Times, 9/11/03)
quote:
October: Senator Thomas Carper (D-DE) refuses to acknowledge any necessity for GSE reforms, saying "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." (Sen. Carper, Hearing of Senate Committee on Banking, Housing, and Urban Affairs, 10/16/03)
quote:
April: Then-Secretary Snow repeats his call for GSE reform, saying "Events that have transpired since I testified before this Committee in 2003 reinforce concerns over the systemic risks posed by the GSEs and further highlight the need for real GSE reform to ensure that our housing finance system remains a strong and vibrant source of funding for expanding homeownership opportunities in America … Half-measures will only exacerbate the risks to our financial system." (Secretary John W. Snow, "Testimony Before The U.S. House Financial Services Committee," 4/13/05)
July: Then-Minority Leader Harry Reid rejects legislation reforming GSEs, "while I favor improving oversight by our federal housing regulators to ensure safety and soundness, we cannot pass legislation that could limit Americans from owning homes and potentially harm our economy in the process." ("Dems Rip New Fannie Mae Regulatory Measure," United Press International, 7/28/05)
Maybe he could have sold it harder but the Dims weren't budging.
0
Posted on 6/18/19 at 6:57 am to DyeHardDylan
quote:
You essentially had the government forcing lenders to meet certain quotas of how many subprime mortgages they could give out, all the while knowing these people could never pay back their loans. The monstrosity of the federal government is what caused the Great Recession, not a lack of government. And if you look at any crisis in American history, you can reach the same conclusion. Government is the problem, not the solution.
Lenders who made out like bandits during the great recession.
The CRA applied to depository banks and not to the subprime lenders (who had no CRA responsibilities) who collapsed.
This post was edited on 6/18/19 at 6:58 am
Posted on 6/18/19 at 6:59 am to TigerFanInSouthland
quote:
Y’all can thank that cocksucker Barney Frank for a lot of it.
^^^ This is the correct answer^^^^^
Posted on 6/18/19 at 8:27 am to RPC4LSU
This thread is amazing. People who insist on blaming Bush in the face of overwhelming evidence are cracking me up.
Posted on 6/18/19 at 9:45 am to Bayou_Tiger_225
quote:
I've studied the housing crisis and found that while there were many guilty parties(banks, rating agencies, shadow banking, ninja loans, etc.) Bill Clinton really got the ball rolling.
You really should go back to school. Clinton's policies of the 1990's contributed very little to the problem. CRA had no bearing on companies like Countrywide, New Century, TBW and Ameriquest or Lehman or Bear & Stearns, etc.
Posted on 6/18/19 at 10:41 am to Little Trump
quote:
Banks were forced to give no document loan to the poor that couldn’t begin to afford a house payment
No NO No........ nowhere did Fannie or Freddie have a real no doc loan. Those were invented by outside forces that were originally in their portfolio lending which was not part of the CRA mandate to depository institutions. Then the mortgage only companies like Countrywide started pushing them in areas like Miami and Arizona as well as Vegas. If these things were 2/28 or 3/27 they were being sold to hedgefunds.....they were betting on a number of things like asset inflation and interest rate increases on the adjustment. quite literally the return could conceivably go from 6% to 8% on month 25. The government actually was out of it....until the end
Posted on 6/18/19 at 11:02 am to DyeHardDylan
i started in the mortgage industry in 2004 with Ameriquest Mortgage. The biggest subprime lender in America. The lack of govt regulation at that time lead to bust. You can blame who you want for that but that was the cause. Fannie and Freddie didn't buy our loans wall street did. We charged crazy high fees and mad crazy good money. I was young and dumb and jumped in with both feet. I was with them in 2007 when they laid us all off . The company owner paid a fine of 600 million dollars for predatory lending and then Bush made him ambassador to the Neitherlands. There is a fine line between to much regulation and no regulation .
Posted on 6/18/19 at 11:05 am to DyeHardDylan
The need for the government to push mortgages to less qualified barrowers is based on the fact Clinton refinanced the general debt with short term bonds. This saved the country a ton of money and allowed the budget to balance but the interest rates have to stay really low or the government debt problem gets worse.
There was no other reliable "safe" income type investment outside of T bills/bonds before this. The best suitable replacement was mortgages. Housing always went up and prices never crashed.
Immediately mortgage based securities became the flavor of the month. But.... Sarbanes Oxley passed in 2001 required all security valuations to be "marked to market value" instead of book value. A recession that would normally be mild became severe when credit markets were frozen due to the marked to market equity valuation.
All in all.... Yes the government was 100% responsible!
There was no other reliable "safe" income type investment outside of T bills/bonds before this. The best suitable replacement was mortgages. Housing always went up and prices never crashed.
Immediately mortgage based securities became the flavor of the month. But.... Sarbanes Oxley passed in 2001 required all security valuations to be "marked to market value" instead of book value. A recession that would normally be mild became severe when credit markets were frozen due to the marked to market equity valuation.
All in all.... Yes the government was 100% responsible!
Posted on 6/19/19 at 12:51 am to ShermanTxTiger
quote:Nope. Bush appointed Donaldson, a Wall Street blue blood as Commissioner of the SEC. Donaldson basically deregulated Wall Street by allowing the securities firms to value their own in-house investments, including securitized mortgages.
Sarbanes Oxley passed in 2001 required all security valuations to be "marked to market value" instead of book value. A recession that would normally be mild became severe when credit markets were frozen due to the marked to market equity valuation.
All in all.... Yes the government was 100% responsible!
Posted on 6/19/19 at 12:58 am to RD Dawg
quote:Still waiting for you to post links supporting all your supposed facts. Is it Gateway Pundit or Conservative Treehouse?
LMAO,,,and you still can't refute facts.
Why won't you post links so I can refute your tripe?
What a weasel.
Posted on 6/19/19 at 1:10 am to texridder
The Pentagon report states that the evidence of financial subversion revealed that the first two phases of an attack on the U.S. economy took place from 2007 to 2009 and “based on recent global market activity, it appears that the predicted Phase III may be underway right now.”
The report states that federal authorities must further investigate two significant events in the months leading up to the financial crisis.
The first phase of the economic attack, the report said, was the escalation of oil prices by speculators from 2007 to mid-2008 that coincided with the housing finance crisis.
In the second phase, the stock market collapsed by what the report called a “bear raid” from unidentified sources on Bear Stearns, Lehman Brothers and other Wall Street firms.
“This produced a complete collapse in credit availability and almost started a global depression,” Mr. Freeman said.
The third phase is what Mr. Freeman states in the report was the main source of the economic system’s vulnerability. “We have taken on massive public debt as the government was the only party who could access capital markets in late 2008 and early 2009,” he said, placing the U.S. dollar’s global reserve currency status at grave risk.
“This is the ‘end game’ if the goal is to destroy America,” Mr. Freeman said, noting that in his view China’s military “has been advocating the potential for an economic attack on the U.S. for 12 years or longer as evidenced by the publication of the book Unrestricted Warfare in 1999.”
Food for thought
LINK
2007 $64.20 $78.13
2008 $91.48 $107.05
2009 $53.48 $62.90
2019 (partial) $46.35 $46.25
The report states that federal authorities must further investigate two significant events in the months leading up to the financial crisis.
The first phase of the economic attack, the report said, was the escalation of oil prices by speculators from 2007 to mid-2008 that coincided with the housing finance crisis.
In the second phase, the stock market collapsed by what the report called a “bear raid” from unidentified sources on Bear Stearns, Lehman Brothers and other Wall Street firms.
“This produced a complete collapse in credit availability and almost started a global depression,” Mr. Freeman said.
The third phase is what Mr. Freeman states in the report was the main source of the economic system’s vulnerability. “We have taken on massive public debt as the government was the only party who could access capital markets in late 2008 and early 2009,” he said, placing the U.S. dollar’s global reserve currency status at grave risk.
“This is the ‘end game’ if the goal is to destroy America,” Mr. Freeman said, noting that in his view China’s military “has been advocating the potential for an economic attack on the U.S. for 12 years or longer as evidenced by the publication of the book Unrestricted Warfare in 1999.”
Food for thought
LINK
2007 $64.20 $78.13
2008 $91.48 $107.05
2009 $53.48 $62.90
2019 (partial) $46.35 $46.25
This post was edited on 6/19/19 at 1:28 am
Posted on 6/19/19 at 2:29 am to texridder
quote:
texridder
Look who crawls out from under their rock.
quote:
Still waiting for you to post links supporting all your supposed facts
EVERY quote I posted was either bookmark or noted.Do you think they're made up?You do know how bookmarks and notations work, correct?
GFY,I've done all they homework and research in our little back and forth and you've done nothing except sky scream and challenge sources.
This post was edited on 6/19/19 at 2:30 am
Posted on 6/19/19 at 9:06 am to RD Dawg
quote:You did 5 minutes worth of work.
GFY,I've done all they homework and research in our little back and forth and you've done nothing except sky scream and challenge sources.
You copied this information from a single source and won't say what it is.
You're a dishonest prick.
Posted on 6/19/19 at 9:19 am to texridder
quote:
You did 5 minutes worth of work.
horseshite and you've done so zero mins.
quote:
You copied this information from a single source and won't say what it is.
Why don't you email the offices of Barney Frank,Chris Dodd or Harry Reid to confirm.
I'
Posted on 6/19/19 at 1:20 pm to RD Dawg
quote:
Why don't you email the offices of Barney Frank,Chris Dodd or Harry Reid to confirm.
You're a dishonest prick X 2.
Is there some reason you won't give the link to the one source where you got the information.
What a loser you are to think that anyone would believe that you got this information by yourself, piece by piece.
Here's laughing at you.
Posted on 6/19/19 at 1:31 pm to DyeHardDylan
quote:You need to study way harder. This claptrap has been dismantled many times over - even on this board.
I’ve been studying this a lot lately. A lot of people are quick to blame the lenders and banks for the crash in 2008, and rightfully so. But it wasn’t the lack of regulations that contributed to the collapse, it was the government providing an incentive to the banks and essentially forcing banks to lend money to people who couldn’t afford a house. Ever since the 1970s, the federal government has been enamored with this idea that everyone should own a house. The Community Reinvestment Act, the American Dream Act (signed by President Bush 43), are two of the culprits. You essentially had the government forcing lenders to meet certain quotas of how many subprime mortgages they could give out, all the while knowing these people could never pay back their loans. The monstrosity of the federal government is what caused the Great Recession, not a lack of government. And if you look at any crisis in American history, you can reach the same conclusion. Government is the problem, not the solution.
Posted on 6/19/19 at 1:36 pm to DyeHardDylan
It was Bill Clinton’s subsidizing bad loans AND the hunger of foreign investors for US real estate backed securities.
As the foreign appetite grew, lenders were forced to digure out ways to get questionable borrowers into the market.
As the foreign appetite grew, lenders were forced to digure out ways to get questionable borrowers into the market.
Posted on 6/19/19 at 1:39 pm to DyeHardDylan
As someone who has actually performed CRA audits, and knows how the government assesses banks, you're wrong. I'm not saying there weren't plenty of dumbfrick bankers that interpreted the law as you do. There surely were. But regulators/CRA doesn't force them to make loans to borrowers that don't have good credit or cash flow. And even IF there are discrepancies in the data (HMDA LAR) that may suggest disparate treatment, there are almost always valid reasons for it. Almost always a lack of affordable housing within the assessment area.
Posted on 6/19/19 at 1:52 pm to DyeHardDylan
LINK /
Posted on 6/19/19 at 2:05 pm to funnystuff
quote:
Even if that’s the argument you want to go with, there is clearly another party that is hugely to blame here. You even said it yourself... quote: If you can’t afford to buy a house People who know they could not and would not repay their loans were taking out the loans all the same. That is fundamentally amoral behavior. So people are also to blame. Individuals. And you can’t let the amoral behavior of individuals off the hook under the guise of government being the root of all evil. Government screws up more than their fair share of the things they touch, and they certainly screwed the pooch here. But they weren’t the only ones. Don’t let the myriad of other failures off the hook.
It's true that a lot of people took home loans that were of the fog a mirror nature but the lending institutions encouraged this BS by giving LTV of over 110% . After all that shite got going then in comes the big daddy financial institutions doing their CDO, CDS, and other MBS crapola .......well all hell broke loose as a result of pure fricking greed, we all know the rest of the story....err Fed sham/bailouts.
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