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Repealing the 17th Amendment would go a long way towards fixing the country
Posted on 4/2/23 at 7:31 pm
Posted on 4/2/23 at 7:31 pm
Ever since we moved to direct election of Senators, it has been a slow March downhill. Put the power back into the hands of the States and most of the current nonsense gets put out to pasture.
Posted on 4/2/23 at 7:37 pm to NOLAVOL16
Indeed. Just amend the damn thing. If I understand it right, it happened because some states would get deadlocked in squabbling over the appointment of senators. It should be simple enough to craft a rule that prevents a deadlock. Senators should serve at the beck and call of the state legislatures rather than being independent swamp creatures.
Posted on 4/2/23 at 7:40 pm to Auburn1968
It was done during the Progressive Era for the very purpose of putting power in the hands of the people. The problem is that all it did was essentially create 2 Houses instead of a true bicameral Congress that the Founders intended. It was the start of the cities overruling the rest of the country - exactly what Madison and Jefferson fought against.
Posted on 4/2/23 at 7:43 pm to NOLAVOL16
You've drawn points A and B but I'm not seeing the line between them. Elaborate please.
This post was edited on 4/2/23 at 7:48 pm
Posted on 4/2/23 at 7:47 pm to faraway
quote:
that is not the problem
It is a very big problem.
Posted on 4/2/23 at 7:50 pm to GoblinGuide
The Senate elections have become national elections in many instances. If the state legislatures elect the senators they become more beholden to the state, not the national money that got them elected.
Posted on 4/2/23 at 7:51 pm to GoblinGuide
quote:
You've drawn points A and B but I'm not seeing the line between them. Elaborate.
The government of Mexico has representation in Washington through an Ambassador. The government of Louisiana (or any other state) does not.
Senators were intended to represent the state governments in Washington as ambassadors, not as representatives of the people. That's the function of the House.
Imagine how different the composition of the Senate would have been over the past decades if the 17th didn't exist.
The 12th is another amendment that should never have been passed. With the VP and POTUS of the same party, yet another check in the checks and balances of power was removed.
If the Senate and the President were the same party, that tie-breaking vote by the VP would be much more powerful.
Posted on 4/2/23 at 7:54 pm to GoblinGuide
Think about what happens now during elections. Representatives and Senators campaign on the exact same issues - basically who hands out more stuff wins. The cities obviously get more House seats because of their population but they also have a massive influence on entire states. Think places like Illinois or Oregon or even NY. They always have 2 Dem senators even though most of the state is Red.
If we went back to appointment by the State Legislatures, Senators would be appointed based on representing the interests of the entire state and would not be as susceptible to pandering for votes.
The Founders were geniuses when they created our system to ensure that any laws that pass would have to have both popular and geographically widespread support. The further we get away from that, the worse things get. As the D’s have shown, as long as they carry the cities, they can tell the rest of the country to pound sand and still win.
If we went back to appointment by the State Legislatures, Senators would be appointed based on representing the interests of the entire state and would not be as susceptible to pandering for votes.
The Founders were geniuses when they created our system to ensure that any laws that pass would have to have both popular and geographically widespread support. The further we get away from that, the worse things get. As the D’s have shown, as long as they carry the cities, they can tell the rest of the country to pound sand and still win.
Posted on 4/2/23 at 7:58 pm to NOLAVOL16
got one better for you. Make the general election for potus based off each congressional district. If you win the congressional district you get 1 vote, if you win the state you get the 2 extra votes for the senator. No more all california goes to Dems and all texas go to Repubs. This would make elections really look like America.
Posted on 4/2/23 at 7:59 pm to GoblinGuide
quote:
Elaborate please
The Senate is supposed to be the senior chamber. The reason why they weren't set up to be popularly elected was to try to make sure they were insulated against "popular" and often fleeing whims of the populace.
But, we also had the USSC say that voting laws in states are not actually the responsibility of the state legislatures, but subject to the judiciary (PA comes to mind,) so laws don't actually mean anything anyway.
Posted on 4/2/23 at 8:02 pm to NOLAVOL16
Another thing this would help with is the party line voting that Congressional leadership demands. It’s such a huge thing for a guy like Manchin to go against his party because if the party pulls support, he likely loses his job.
If the Legislature appoints him and he votes the way the state wants him to, he has no problem, even if it goes against what the Senator from NY or CA wants.
If the Legislature appoints him and he votes the way the state wants him to, he has no problem, even if it goes against what the Senator from NY or CA wants.
Posted on 4/2/23 at 8:04 pm to NOLAVOL16
100%
Give State Legislators 60 days to select a new US Senator or the governor gets to appoint one. That will fix the gridlock issue and the country will be better off.
ETA:
Another great suggestion.
FYI, I was blasted and downvoted years ago for making these suggestions on this board.
Give State Legislators 60 days to select a new US Senator or the governor gets to appoint one. That will fix the gridlock issue and the country will be better off.
ETA:
quote:
Another thing this would help with is the party line voting that Congressional leadership demands.
Another great suggestion.
FYI, I was blasted and downvoted years ago for making these suggestions on this board.
This post was edited on 4/2/23 at 8:08 pm
Posted on 4/2/23 at 8:04 pm to AubieinNC2009
Make the general election for potus based off each congressional district
I love the idea. This would moderate our politics sooooo much. Anyone hoping to win would have to appeal across the aisle and over the entire country.
I love the idea. This would moderate our politics sooooo much. Anyone hoping to win would have to appeal across the aisle and over the entire country.
Posted on 4/2/23 at 8:11 pm to NOLAVOL16
quote:
This would moderate our politics sooooo much
No, it wouldn't. It'd simply inflame the lefties and increase calls for the "tyranny of the majority" (which they'd call the "popular vote.")
What change in voting laws is going to stop the vehement objections to parents at school board meetings, or federal judges at colleges, etc.?
Posted on 4/2/23 at 8:14 pm to LemmyLives
Well, any inflamed extreme lefties or righties who insist on their way or the highway would be quickly marginalized as they’d never be able to get the widespread and/or popular support needed to actually get/keep insane policies into place.
All this tranny nonsense or talk of repealing the 2nd goes away right quick.
All this tranny nonsense or talk of repealing the 2nd goes away right quick.
This post was edited on 4/2/23 at 8:15 pm
Posted on 4/2/23 at 8:24 pm to NOLAVOL16
quote:
lefties or righties who insist on their way or the highway would be quickly marginalized
But this only works in one direction. Trannies vs. Detroit Muslims that don't want their kids talked to about sex, for instance.
Think about what was happening five years ago, and think about where we are now. I knew we were on a downward slide a long time ago, but seeing trannies that got top/bottom surgery nearly *20* years ago in Colorado last year helped crystallize it for me.
The age old question, "what is extreme," is the definition of what is "bad" is in the eye of the beholder. I don't like that. I like words in black and white that are legally passed as laws.
Posted on 4/2/23 at 8:26 pm to NOLAVOL16
quote:
If we went back to appointment by the State Legislatures, Senators would be appointed based on representing the interests of the entire state and would not be as susceptible to pandering for votes.
100% false. They would just pander for votes of state legislators rather than voters.
Ugh.
Posted on 4/2/23 at 8:26 pm to NOLAVOL16
quote:
Repealing the 17th Amendment would go a long way towards fixing the country
Along with the 19th Amendment.
Posted on 4/2/23 at 8:28 pm to LemmyLives
I didn’t say it would solve ALL our problems. But it would help tremendously. Much of the polarization has to do with the Feds having too much power and influence. The States should be free to govern themselves however they want with limited influence from Washington. Then if California wants to hand out reparations or Oklahoma wants to mandate everyone carry a gun at all times, so be it. Those are no longer national issues.
Repealing the 17th is just one step towards reinstating the sovereignty of the States.
Repealing the 17th is just one step towards reinstating the sovereignty of the States.
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