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Started By
Message
re: Question for judges and attorneys...Where does your morality (if any) come into play ?
Posted on 5/21/24 at 8:20 am to SlowFlowPro
Posted on 5/21/24 at 8:20 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Among other things.
1
Posted on 5/21/24 at 8:20 am to NC_Tigah
quote:
Where you, and others in your field, jump the shark is in application of the same proposition to legal practitioners themselves. Lying is immoral.
Lying is against the rules. No need for a moral discussion about it.
quote:
Unethical conduct is immoral
Unethical conduct is also against the rules. No need for a moral discussion about it.
quote:
Practitioners guilty of such should be opposed, and vigorously addressed from a disciplinary standpoint.
Sure, but those rules are already in place. You don't have to rely on morality to do so.
Posted on 5/21/24 at 8:22 am to NC_Tigah
quote:
But obvious uneven application of law w/ the Trump, J6, George Floyd, and Matthew Dolloff crap represents a seachange in legal approach public perception.
Only for people who haven't been paying attention for 40-50 years
quote:
IMO, it's done damage to law in similar fashion to the reputational damage Covid inflicted on American medicine
The War on Drugs did this, and that started in the 70s/80s.
Posted on 5/21/24 at 8:24 am to SixthAndBarone
quote:
Judges have to judge based on the law, not their morality.
In theory
Posted on 5/21/24 at 8:25 am to loogaroo
morality died when we voted that you must be an atty to be a judge in 07.
before that........you didn't have to be an atty at all.
before that........you didn't have to be an atty at all.
Posted on 5/21/24 at 8:26 am to SDVTiger
I've done a metric frick ton of areas of law. Right now it's criminal and family (but only certain stuff) for reasons of streamlining that I won't get into, because my competition reads this board and I'm not giving them free advice after lots of effort involved in figuring out certain business efficiencies.
I've also done other things....owned various websites, consulting stuff, a former semi-professional poker player.
*ETA: stacking cash right now to hopefully buy depressed companies when the economic downturn comes
I've also done other things....owned various websites, consulting stuff, a former semi-professional poker player.
*ETA: stacking cash right now to hopefully buy depressed companies when the economic downturn comes
This post was edited on 5/21/24 at 8:27 am
Posted on 5/21/24 at 8:26 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
However, this thread isn't about legislating morality
There it is.
The thread is about whatever people make it about. YOU made an implied claim about law and morality. If you can't support it just say so.
Posted on 5/21/24 at 8:29 am to Flats
quote:
The thread is about whatever people make it about.
The OP is pretty specific.
quote:
Question for judges and attorneys...Where does your morality (if any) come into play ?
quote:
Where do you draw the line in pursuing a conviction or defending a criminal?
There is literally nothing in there about anything outside practice.
The thread is not addressed to legislators, and it doesn't reference legislation.
quote:
YOU made an implied claim about law and morality.
I'm following OP, which is about the practice of law, not the creation of law.
Posted on 5/21/24 at 8:32 am to NC_Tigah
quote:
But obvious uneven application of law w/ the Trump, J6, George Floyd, and Matthew Dolloff crap represents a seachange in legal approach public perception.
Again I don't disagree but I would describe that as damage to the justice system as a whole. Yes, that's relatively new and 100% deserved.
Posted on 5/21/24 at 8:33 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Sure, but those rules are already in place. You don't have to rely on morality to do so.
Yes, but those rules are in place because that behavior would be immoral.
They are ethical rules, but they are based on morality.
Posted on 5/21/24 at 8:39 am to wackatimesthree
quote:
Yes, but those rules are in place because that behavior would be immoral.
Again, that's a separate discussion about creation of the laws/rules.
This thread is about the practice of law, not the creation of law.
quote:
They are ethical rules, but they are based on morality.
Feel free to make a thread asking legislators "where does your morality (if any) come into play?"
Posted on 5/21/24 at 8:42 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Again, that's a separate discussion about creation of the laws/rules.
This thread is about the practice of law, not the creation of law.
Nah.
The question was where does morality come into play in the practice of law?
The answer is that morality established the ethical rules and the rules that are followed in the practice of law reflect the morality that the rules are based on. That's where it comes into play.
Theoretically, at least.
We've needed better/more judicial review for a long time because too many judges do not stick to that standard.
Posted on 5/21/24 at 8:44 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Feel free to make a thread asking legislators "where does your morality (if any) come into play?"
Feel free to frick off.
Posted on 5/21/24 at 8:44 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
You think you can separate them?
Quite easily.
Rationalization.
Its all about $$$$
Posted on 5/21/24 at 8:45 am to wackatimesthree
quote:
The question was where does morality come into play in the practice of law?
Yes, practice. The practice of law isn't the creation of law.
quote:
The answer is that morality established the ethical rules
That has nothing to do with the practice of law. You're talking about a legislative/regulatory function. That's not the practice of law or a role for lawyers.
That's for legislators (or judges, if they create conduct rules in an administrative or jurisprudential fashion), not lawyers.
Posted on 5/21/24 at 8:45 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
those rules are already in place. You don't have to rely on morality to do so
The "rules" are (1) constructed on axial morality, (2) are being skirted or ignored, and (3) such behavior is lauded as shrewd or clever practice, rather than derided and disciplined.
Posted on 5/21/24 at 8:47 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:Morality is applicable in both arenas, clearly.
Yes, practice. The practice of law isn't the creation of law.
Posted on 5/21/24 at 8:48 am to NC_Tigah
quote:
The "rules" are (1) constructed on axial morality
That construction isn't the practice of law. It's another function by different parties.
quote:
are being skirted or ignored,
I mean I'm sure it has happened in the history of law.
quote:
such behavior is lauded as shrewd or clever practice, rather than derided and disciplined.
This is more a myth for laymen. Unethical behavior, if found, is reported. Pretty much every jurisdiction has a snitch rule, which makes it an ethical violation not to report unethical behavior. You can't just ignore it, because, as a lawyer, you know it's likely to come up eventually and then you're in the box.
Posted on 5/21/24 at 8:49 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
That has nothing to do with the practice of law. You're talking about a legislative/regulatory function. That's not the practice of law or a role for lawyers.
Of course it is. The profession established rules of ethical conduct as well as the legislature. Can you not be disbarred for doing things that aren't legislatively codified or illegal?
quote:
The practice of law isn't the creation of law.
I get it that you're not going to admit you were wrong no matter what, but here's a question. Does the practice of law enforcement (theoretically, when done according to the rules) reflect the constitutional values that the country was founded upon?
If your answer is "yes," (and that obviously is the correct answer) then...
This post was edited on 5/21/24 at 8:51 am
Posted on 5/21/24 at 8:49 am to NC_Tigah
quote:
Morality is applicable in both arenas, clearly.
You can argue it may apply to the creation of law, but it shouldn't be part of the practice of law.
The rules of practice are set. They require no morality to follow.
It's like saying a mathematician has to rely on morality to say 1+2 = 3, once the rules of 1+1 = 2, are established.
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