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Message
re: Privilege is a LIE
Posted on 12/22/16 at 2:52 pm to bmy
Posted on 12/22/16 at 2:52 pm to bmy
quote:
Or we could live in reality: neither party deserves it. Neither party was likely relevant in the creation of that wealth.
Some snotty arse ends up getting the money because he did household chores and was privileged enough to be born into wealth.. then he wants to talk down to people
Hard to say privilege doesn't exist when the OP is a fantastic example
First off, he who deserves it should be dictated by he who made it. His father is the one that "deserved" it and it should be his decision on who it moves on to. If he had wanted the government or "projects" (as you said) to have it, he was more than capable to leave it to them.
Second, deserved is an abstract concept that means something different to different people. I for one do not put my faith in the government to do the most or best with any monetary resources, therefore I would say they are most undeserving of it. So now it is neither who (in your mind) deserve it, but one party is most undeserving (in my perspective).
Third, I think you are getting hung up on deserve vs entitled to. I would have to say that whoever the previous owner (the entitled) left it to, is now the one entitled to it. Not saying they are an "entitled person", just that they are entitled to the ownership / possession by the last person to have ownership / possession.
Forth, for Christmas (assuming you celebrate, if not just replace with "birthday" so we don't have to go down that path), I assume you were at one point in your life loved by someone. That loved one gave you a gift. Are you not deserving of it? Are you not more deserving of it than the other "taxpayers" (and non-taxpaying....), the government, or the social projects it could be sold to help fund? I would argue that you are more deserving due to the fact your loved one (gift giver) thought you were. But if you disagree, please by all means sell and / or donate it away to someone you feel is more deserving. That is after all your American right. But I feel I give a lot both voluntarily and through force, that I am going to use that sweater, toy, knife, car, or whatever it was, as the giver intended me to do.
1
Posted on 12/22/16 at 2:56 pm to bmy
quote:
That your daddy helped with
quote:
bmy
fricking moron
Posted on 12/22/16 at 3:00 pm to bmy
quote:
2) OPs daddys money lets him take and absorb larger risks than less fortunate people (less privileged). This, at least in part, directly helped him create and maintain a business. Therefore he benefits from this privilege which discredits his original OP.
One could argue that this statement is expressing that because of the status earned or retained by one's parents, that person can never be successful, and therefore will always be seen as "lucky", "privileged", "snotty",...which would most likely put them at a social disadvantage aimed at marginalize them. An individual seen as such would most definitely not be socially privileged, despite the amount of luxury they may have or achieve. By this alone, I think we just confirmed the "LIE" of "Privilege". I would like to thank you on behalf of the OP for you successfully proving his point. Well done!!!
Posted on 12/22/16 at 3:18 pm to Broke
There's plenty of methods and types of privilege, and not all of it has to do with income/money.
When one person with a clean record goes to prison because of an ounce of pot in their car, and a kid get community service after beating a minority, screaming ethnic slurs at him, and then raping him with a coat hanger? The main difference between them being their skin color and social status?
That's privilege. It can be racial, it can be financial, it can be if you're an athlete or in a protective community. It can be because of position, it can be because of gender and it can be because of connection.
To believe that it doesn't exist just because you can cite one example is intellectually dishonest. There is privilege in this country, but it's less about race and more about affluence. How else do rich athletes get away with insane crap? Entertainers, politicians, etc.
The justice system is supposed to be blind, but that is absolutely not the case.
When one person with a clean record goes to prison because of an ounce of pot in their car, and a kid get community service after beating a minority, screaming ethnic slurs at him, and then raping him with a coat hanger? The main difference between them being their skin color and social status?
That's privilege. It can be racial, it can be financial, it can be if you're an athlete or in a protective community. It can be because of position, it can be because of gender and it can be because of connection.
To believe that it doesn't exist just because you can cite one example is intellectually dishonest. There is privilege in this country, but it's less about race and more about affluence. How else do rich athletes get away with insane crap? Entertainers, politicians, etc.
The justice system is supposed to be blind, but that is absolutely not the case.
Posted on 12/22/16 at 3:22 pm to The Rodfather
quote:
One could argue that this statement is expressing that because of the status earned or retained by one's parents, that person can never be successful, and therefore will always be seen as "lucky", "privileged", "snotty",...which would most likely put them at a social disadvantage aimed at marginalize them. An individual seen as such would most definitely not be socially privileged, despite the amount of luxury they may have or achieve. By this alone, I think we just confirmed the "LIE" of "Privilege". I would like to thank you on behalf of the OP for you successfully proving his point. Well done!!!
Except you're wrong. I have massive respect for small business owners. I just don't have respect for people who take credit for the success of others.
OP owns a business. Daddy's wealth played a role. This doesn't mean that he is better harder working, smarter, etc. than a less fortunate person who didn't receive a part of a $5M inheritance.
It just means that his circumstances aren't comparable and that his personal experience is atypical.
Joe Blow 33k/year can't absorb the risk or stop a steady but low paying job because he has mouths to feed and no other way to put food on the table. OP had family money and was given a headstart in the race. That's privilege. There is nothing inherently wrong with it.. that shite is natural. But there is something wrong with pretending it doesn't exist to inflate your ego at the expense of other people. That's how things like systemic classism and racism enter into existence.
This post was edited on 12/22/16 at 3:23 pm
Posted on 12/22/16 at 3:22 pm to DirtyMike
quote:
I would love to get an estate over $5M and I wouldn't give a shite if the government took some of it because I'd still be a millionaire and be better off than 90% of the country.
Not a true statement. Yes it is true in some cases, but take a farmer for example. Someone that has land passed down for generations that is currently valued at $5mm (not unlikely when considering 640 acres of LA land with a home, barn, and crop could very well exceed this), plus the $1mm in equipment. The old farmer dies in 2009 with only $200k in easily liquid assets. He made a modest living of $55k a year. His son has spent his entire life on the farm with the expectation of keeping the family farm up and running. Now he is left with a few options. Option 1, having to sell some equipment, plus 22+% of the land all equating to now making less than $43k for his family (if he can with less resources). Option 2, sell the entire farm and pay all the gains plus death taxes. Option 3, get a $960k+ loan on the property to continue making the $55k but keep the entire farm in place.
Kinda seems like a hardship to go through when his old man paid property tax for the last 55+ years on that land (probably close to the tune of 4x's as much as he acquired it for) plus the income tax on the goods he made off that same land.
This may not be the absolute best example but I have personally seen quite a few family farms sold off and small businesses shut down (therefore people laid off) due to this exact thing. Sure there are ways to circumvent the law and taxes, but we aren't talking about the extreme wealthy in this discussion. Also, the death tax has been adjusted a few times up to that figure you are talking about of $5mm.
Year..........Exclusion......tax rate
Amount.........Max/Top
2001..........$675,000..........55%
2002..........$1 million........50%
2003..........$1 million........49%
2004..........$1.5 million......48%
2005..........$1.5 million......47%
2006..........$2 million........46%
2007..........$2 million........45%
2008..........$2 million........45%
2009..........$3.5 million......45%
2010..........Repealed
2011..........$5 million........35%
2012..........$5.12 million.....35%
2013..........$5.25 million.....40%
2014..........$5.34 million.....40%
2015..........$5.43 million.....40%
2016..........$5.45 million.....40%
Posted on 12/22/16 at 3:23 pm to skrayper
quote:
That's privilege. It can be racial, it can be financial, it can be if you're an athlete or in a protective community. It can be because of position, it can be because of gender and it can be because of connection. To believe that it doesn't exist just because you can cite one example is intellectually dishonest. There is privilege in this country, but it's less about race and more about affluence. How else do rich athletes get away with insane crap? Entertainers, politicians, etc.
I don't know the OP's stance, but my belief is that using "privilege" as it is currently being used, is a crutch intended to make excuses for ones situation. Everyone (I mean everyone) has some form of privilege and some fore of hardship to overcome. Focusing on the privileges of others will never do anything to better your own situation. Suck it up, maybe even be happy for the breaks others get, and move on with your life in an attempt to better your own and your families situation.
quote:
The justice system is supposed to be blind, but that is absolutely not the case.
This however, we can completely agree on. The media has no obligation to stay neutral and "fair", other than any moral obligation they feel. BUT the justice system most certainly does. The best thing they can do is fix the bias they have, while the worst (and what looks like the current trajectory) thing they can do is swing way the other way and over exert the law on the ones that (either really or were perceived to) skated before. Completely neutral is the only answer for the justice system and the government in general. Let the people decide whether they are on the jury or are the consumers making purchases.
This post was edited on 12/22/16 at 3:31 pm
Posted on 12/22/16 at 3:39 pm to bmy
quote:
bmy
Are you walking back your original point a bit? Seems like your original main point was more that the OP was in no way more "entitled" to the monetary gift from his own father than the "taxpayers".
Posted on 12/22/16 at 3:41 pm to bmy
quote:
Except you're wrong. I have massive respect for small business owners. I just don't have respect for people who take credit for the success of others.
OP owns a business. Daddy's wealth played a role. This doesn't mean that he is better harder working, smarter, etc. than a less fortunate person who didn't receive a part of a $5M inheritance.
But again, you marginalize and belittle his accomplishments, because in your mind he can't have any accomplishments because of the success of his father before him. He very well may have just parlayed his fathers success or knowledge into a successful business for himself, but he very well may not have. Without knowing more details you can't make the generalizations and accusations that you have made about him.
Let's say he didn't use any of his fathers money to make his business. In this hyothetical his father is a hard nose that didn't flaunt or even give his son a real impression of security of failure and made him earn it himself. But he did use his fathers knowledge and experience to help him adapt and form his own plan for success. Is his success now not as impressive because his father gave him the intellectual properties to succeed? Are others home grown success not as deserving because they learned from their bosses and teachers how success was made, even though their parents had none before? Was he setup with an unfair advantage because his father forced moral and ethical principles down his throat at an early age so that he wouldn't be one of the trust fund babies later in life?
Businesses never stop taking risks no matter how successful they are. Until the government gets involved, there is no such thing as "to big to fail" in the private sector. Until the business is sold and all assets are liquidated form hidden away in a fire / flood / bomb / theft proof container, there is and always will be a risk of loss.
Posted on 12/22/16 at 3:52 pm to bmy
quote:
Question: why do you deserve your fathers money more than the taxpayer/projects supported by tax dollars? You didn't earn it. You don't deserve it either.
I can't even wrap my head around this mentality.
Posted on 12/22/16 at 3:58 pm to The Rodfather
If you have land worth $5M and only $200k in liquid assets by the time you die, you're doing it wrong.
Posted on 12/22/16 at 4:00 pm to bmy
quote:
Question: why do you deserve your fathers money more than the taxpayer/projects supported by tax dollars? You didn't earn it. You don't deserve it either.
Question: Why does his father not have the right to do what he wants or give to whom he wants the money that he earned and is the sole and rightful possessor of?
Or are you feigning ignorance about the fundamental human nature of familial relations (not the Alabama kind)?
And why do you believe the state is arbitrarily deserving or entitled to an individual's possessions that were legally earned?
Posted on 12/22/16 at 4:04 pm to bmy
quote:
Or we could live in reality: neither party deserves it. Neither party was likely relevant in the creation of that wealth.
Some snotty arse ends up getting the money because he did household chores and was privileged enough to be born into wealth.. then he wants to talk down to people
Hard to say privilege doesn't exist when the OP is a fantastic example
GFY. I work my arse off so my family can live a comfortable lifestyle and there will be some left for my children. That will be what I want to do with MY money when I pass. I decide who gets it.
Its assholes like you that will assure Trump gets 8 years.
Posted on 12/22/16 at 4:58 pm to GeauxDoc
quote:
Are you walking back your original point a bit? Seems like your original main point was more that the OP was in no way more "entitled" to the monetary gift from his own father than the "taxpayers".
I argued he was no more deserving given that he didn't earn it or create it. And that he was using his headstart in life to bolster his own ego and pretending that it was his own hard work that got him where he is.
Rewind his life and remove that inheritance.. and where would he be? Hard to say but not likely a successful business owner. He would probably be a success in some average job like the rest of us
This post was edited on 12/22/16 at 5:05 pm
Posted on 12/22/16 at 5:01 pm to The Rodfather
quote:
But again, you marginalize and belittle his accomplishments, because in your mind he can't have any accomplishments because of the success of his father before him. He very well may have just parlayed his fathers success or knowledge into a successful business for himself, but he very well may not have. Without knowing more details you can't make the generalizations and accusations that you have made about him.
I joined the Army out of high school to pay for my college. I graduated and got a graduate assistantship to cover graduate school. Graduated with that degree and never took a dime from my father while opening my business.
But don't let that get in the way of a good bmy bullshite fest. To him, my father bought the building and gave me all of my customers while covering every expense I had. Which is utter bullshite.
ETA: I can assume this will put a rest to the "your dad made you successful" crap.
This post was edited on 12/22/16 at 5:04 pm
Posted on 12/22/16 at 5:03 pm to ChewyDante
You guys suck arse at reading. I said that he doesn't deserve it either (which also means the government/tax payer does not deserve it).
you guys are so emotional
you guys are so emotionalPosted on 12/22/16 at 5:06 pm to hogminer
quote:
GFY. I work my arse off so my family can live a comfortable lifestyle and there will be some left for my children. That will be what I want to do with MY money when I pass. I decide who gets it.
Its assholes like you that will assure Trump gets 8 years.
Hope he does get 8 years
Posted on 12/22/16 at 5:08 pm to Broke
quote:
I joined the Army out of high school to pay for my college. I graduated and got a graduate assistantship to cover graduate school. Graduated with that degree and never took a dime from my father while opening my business.
But don't let that get in the way of a good bmy bullshite fest. To him, my father bought the building and gave me all of my customers while covering every expense I had. Which is utter bullshite.
ETA: I can assume this will put a rest to the "your dad made you successful" crap.
Not bad
I maintain that you're still very wrong about privilege existing. It's a part of life and reality is that some people start ahead and some behind.
Posted on 12/22/16 at 5:09 pm to bmy
So who should get it?
Pull an interwar Germany and burn the cash to warm the dead corpse while waiting to be buried?
What should we do with the deads possessions? Destroy them? Bury them a la Egyptian style for the afterlife?
If you sell off the possessions who should get the money?
Oh... Logic says give it to the family unless noted otherwise via the dead persons will.
Pull an interwar Germany and burn the cash to warm the dead corpse while waiting to be buried?
What should we do with the deads possessions? Destroy them? Bury them a la Egyptian style for the afterlife?
If you sell off the possessions who should get the money?
Oh... Logic says give it to the family unless noted otherwise via the dead persons will.
Posted on 12/22/16 at 5:11 pm to bmy
quote:
You guys suck arse at reading. I said that he doesn't deserve it either (which also means the government/tax payer does not deserve it).
you guys are so emotional
So nobody deserves it? What exactly is your argument then?
If the owner of the property and wealth wants to give it to someone, then they are the most deserving of it, because it is his to do with as he pleases.
So apparently you just want to bitch about nothing then?
The OP didn't say he deserved it absent his father's will to bequeath it to him. So you are being obtuse.
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