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re: Pope, we must avoid rigid ideologies

Posted on 12/23/23 at 7:32 am to
Posted by Crimson Wraith
Member since Jan 2014
29903 posts
Posted on 12/23/23 at 7:32 am to
The False Prophet
Posted by Tantal
Member since Sep 2012
19736 posts
Posted on 12/23/23 at 7:32 am to
quote:

What does this even mean?

I think it means that gay money spends just as well as straight money.
Posted by Revelator
Member since Nov 2008
62066 posts
Posted on 12/23/23 at 7:33 am to
quote:

Uh, there are many going the other way. The Protestant denominations are a real shite show right now. Many have been taken over by radical gay and trans activists.



The Protestant churches are falling apart, on this we can agree. But it’s all part of the great falling away of the end times and it isn’t unique to just the Protestants.
Posted by Zarkinletch416
Deep in the Heart of Texas
Member since Jan 2020
8689 posts
Posted on 12/23/23 at 7:33 am to
Maybe YOU should avoid blessing sin.

Well at least the African Catholic Church has refused to comply with this absurd action.

I'm waiting to see how (and if) the USCCB replies to this?

"Truth, what is that?" - Pontius Pilate

Posted by Hopeful Doc
Member since Sep 2010
15388 posts
Posted on 12/23/23 at 7:35 am to
quote:

And then talks abut giving them a blessing



Yes. He talks about blessing sinners who approach him for a blessing.



I forget. What did Jesus think of the tax collectors and prostitutes, and what was the clergy at the time’s opinion on Jesus’s interactions with them?
Posted by Stitches
Member since Oct 2019
1243 posts
Posted on 12/23/23 at 7:35 am to
quote:

doctrines are rigid ideologies.


So you're saying things which were long-taught, practically universally so, as orthodox doctrines since the 1-3rd centuries, such as infant baptism, baptismal regeneration, sola verbum dei, apostolic succession, real presence, salvation not being secure, etc. should not have been changed by the whims of men in the 16th century?

The difference here is the RCC didn't change any doctrines with the recent clarification on pastoral (not liturgical) blessings for individuals involved in same-sex relationships.
Posted by Stitches
Member since Oct 2019
1243 posts
Posted on 12/23/23 at 7:36 am to
The Greek Catholic Church just announced they aren't allowing this type of blessing either.
Posted by Revelator
Member since Nov 2008
62066 posts
Posted on 12/23/23 at 7:37 am to
quote:

I forget. What did Jesus think of the tax collectors and prostitutes, and what was the clergy at the time’s opinion on Jesus’s interactions with them?


Jesus told them to repent and never left an ambiguous statement about this being their only avenue to forgiveness. Homosexual couples are living in open and unrepentant sin, and giving them any type of blessing enforces in their own minds that what they are doing might not be so bad
This post was edited on 12/23/23 at 7:49 am
Posted by Ribbed
Baton Rouge
Member since Jun 2023
2745 posts
Posted on 12/23/23 at 7:37 am to
Alright. What pics do they have on the gay pope?
Posted by McLemore
Member since Dec 2003
35219 posts
Posted on 12/23/23 at 7:38 am to
He’s a veritable Peter!!

Sounds just like his “predecessor,” huh?

I can just hear this Pope saying the words of 2 Peter 2:

quote:

But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction. And in their greed they will exploit you with false words. Their condemnation from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep. And many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of truth will be blasphemed. For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to chains of gloomy darkness to be kept until the judgment; if he did not spare the ancient world, but preserved Noah, a herald of righteousness, with seven others, when he brought a flood upon the world of the ungodly; if by turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to ashes he condemned them to extinction, making them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly; and if he rescued righteous Lot, greatly distressed by the sensual conduct of the wicked (for as that righteous man lived among them day after day, he was tormenting his righteous soul over their lawless deeds that he saw and heard); then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from trials, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment until the day of judgment, and especially those who indulge in the lust of defiling passion and despise authority.Bold and willful, they do not tremble as they blaspheme the glorious ones, whereas angels, though greater in might and power, do not pronounce a blasphemous judgment against them before the Lord. But these, like irrational animals, creatures of instinct, born to be caught and destroyed, blaspheming about matters of which they are ignorant, will also be destroyed in their destruction, suffering wrong as the wage for their wrongdoing. They count it pleasure to revel in the daytime. They are blots and blemishes, reveling in their deceptions, while they feast with you. They have eyes full of adultery, insatiable for sin. They entice unsteady souls. They have hearts trained in greed. Accursed children! Forsaking the right way, they have gone astray. They have followed the way of Balaam, the son of Beor, who loved gain from wrongdoing, but was rebuked for his own transgression; a speechless donkey spoke with human voice and restrained the prophet's madness. These are waterless springs and mists driven by a storm. For them the gloom of utter darkness has been reserved. For, speaking loud boasts of folly, they entice by sensual passions of the flesh those who are barely escaping from those who live in error. They promise them freedom, but they themselves are slaves of corruption. For whatever overcomes a person, to that he is enslaved. For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them. What the true proverb says has happened to them: “The dog returns to its own vomit, and the sow, after washing herself, returns to wallow in the mire.”
Posted by WeeWee
Member since Aug 2012
45369 posts
Posted on 12/23/23 at 7:38 am to
quote:

No, but religion/church does. What does this even mean?


Organized religion including the Roman Catholic Church are made up of people. People’s opinions and interpretations of the truth (scripture in this case) change over time.
Posted by catholictigerfan
Member since Oct 2009
59847 posts
Posted on 12/23/23 at 7:39 am to
so I just took a chance to read what Pope Francis was saying.

He makes three points that he wants those in the Curia to Consider

1) We need to listen, as the scripture told us about Mary, she pondered these things in her heart.
2) we need to discern like the John the Baptist
3) we need to journey like the Magi.

It was in this context that the Pope gave his words on not sticking to an ideology, not to remain stuck in what we have done in the past, but rather move forward.

He never ONCE mentions the document that was released earlier this week. He is trying to encourage those who work in the Curia.

Basically the media is trying to connect two things that aren't necessarily connected.

edit: if you want to read it yourself here is the LINK
This post was edited on 12/23/23 at 7:41 am
Posted by themunch
bottom of the list
Member since Jan 2007
71668 posts
Posted on 12/23/23 at 7:39 am to
quote:

Let’s look at things like:
Number of planets
Shape of earth
Food pyramid promoted by gov’t
Covid
Cigarettes/smoking
Asbestos
Slavery


Which of these is about God's Word? I see a list of man's ideas.
Posted by themunch
bottom of the list
Member since Jan 2007
71668 posts
Posted on 12/23/23 at 7:42 am to
quote:

What is the curia in the Roman Catholic Church?
The administrative unit of the Holy See is called the Roman Curia, which assists the Pope in governing the Catholic Church. The Roman Curia includes the Secretariats, the Curial Congregations, the Pontifical Councils, Pontifical Commissions, the tribunals, and other offices.


Congrats on creating what Jesus told us not to get into, as this is about your Soul, your spiritual existence not about governance.
Posted by catholictigerfan
Member since Oct 2009
59847 posts
Posted on 12/23/23 at 7:43 am to
quote:

And then in the second quote on ‘rigid ideologies’ he never mentioned the first speech/publication at all.


many seem to forget that it wasn't Francis who wrote the document, rather he just approved of it. Many seem to think it was actually Francis who wrote these things.
Posted by catholictigerfan
Member since Oct 2009
59847 posts
Posted on 12/23/23 at 7:43 am to
quote:

Congrats on creating what Jesus told us not to get into, as this is about your Soul, your spiritual existence not about governance.



got a scripture passage, where Jesus told us not to govern the Church?
Posted by Hopeful Doc
Member since Sep 2010
15388 posts
Posted on 12/23/23 at 7:44 am to
quote:

Jesus told them to repent and never left an ambiguous statement about this being their only avenue to forgiveness.



quote:

“When a blessing is invoked on certain human relationships” through a special liturgical rite, the Declaration notes, “it is necessary that what is blessed corresponds with God’s designs written in creation” (par. 11). Therefore, the Church does not have the power to impart a liturgical blessing on irregular or same-sex couples. It is also necessary to avoid the risk of reducing the meaning of blessings to this point of view only, expecting for a simple blessing “the same moral conditions for a simple blessing that are called for in the reception of the sacraments” (par. 12).



1) he literally says The Church doesn’t have the power to change because of the contradiction of God’s Given Word.
2) I’m honestly a little fuzzy, and it’s a difficult thing to specifically look up. But I seem to recall that in Jesus’s company, yes- He did command them to turn away from their wicked ways. I think it is either explicitly stated or very well implied that not everyone he commanded to do so did just that.
Was the command itself and His presence not a blessing to sinners ( some of whom were unwilling to change)?
Posted by 3nOut
I don't really care, Margaret
Member since Jan 2013
32232 posts
Posted on 12/23/23 at 7:46 am to
quote:

Uh, there are many going the other way. The Protestant denominations are a real shite show right now. Many have been taken over by radical gay and trans activists.


My current church is a reformed Bible church and we have stuck to scriptures in a pretty dutiful way in the face of progressivism for the last 10 years. We lost 2 elders who decided they wanted to bring in egalitarianism to the board. God bless them in their travels but good riddance.

A few leaders went a bit wonky in 2020 during Covid and BLM, but nothing unbiblical in my opinion and there was a good course correction.

That all being said, I follow a ton of Catholic accounts on X that are doing a way better job of leading their families toward Christ than a solid majority of Protestant “leaders.” I grew up Protestant in a rural German Catholic community, so a lot of it feels like home these days. I still have a scripture first apolitical church right now and there is another Presbyterian one I could easily attend but converting to Catholicism becomes more palatable by the day.
This post was edited on 12/23/23 at 7:48 am
Posted by themunch
bottom of the list
Member since Jan 2007
71668 posts
Posted on 12/23/23 at 7:47 am to
You show me.
Posted by tigerpawl
Can't get there from here.
Member since Dec 2003
22628 posts
Posted on 12/23/23 at 7:47 am to
quote:

Couples are blessed. The union is not blessed
quote:

it is clear that there is no change on the doctrine of marriages and on the objective valuation of sexual acts outside the only kind of marriage which exists - male-female,
It is NOT clear. This is double-speak. You don't bless something you condemn. Pick one. Stop with the mixed messages.
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