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Started By
Message
1
Posted on 6/30/21 at 10:59 am to Dday63
quote:Wow. This is some scary shite.
I do not think intentional lies should be protected free speech
Posted on 6/30/21 at 11:01 am to Jack Carter
quote:
Meanwhile:
Ex-FBI lawyer Kevin Clinesmith given probation after guilty plea in John Durham probe
Does anyone know if the two NY lawyers who threw molotov cocktails into the police station had their law licenses suspended by the bar association?
Posted on 6/30/21 at 11:02 am to BeNotDeceivedGal6_7
They have not.
Posted on 6/30/21 at 11:04 am to Dday63
quote:
I do not think intentional lies should be protected free speech, particularly when they are undermining our democracy.
Well, this judge disagrees with you. He ruled that Rachel Maddow's viewers should know she's giving her opinion, not facts. Her show undermined our democracy for 4 years of Trump's presidency.
Posted on 6/30/21 at 11:06 am to NC_Tigah
Yeah, a lot of the checks and balances are being eroded with no signs of stopping.
Corporations can't be relief upon to act in their own profit interest anymore.
Entities like the ACLU have gone full on speech repression in some instances
Professional licensing bodies which have often taken highly controversial positions at odds with public sentiment are bowing to the radical will of urban/coastal elites and will gradually progress to where doctors/lawyers/counselors are purged and unemployable if they engage in wrongthink.
Corporations can't be relief upon to act in their own profit interest anymore.
Entities like the ACLU have gone full on speech repression in some instances
Professional licensing bodies which have often taken highly controversial positions at odds with public sentiment are bowing to the radical will of urban/coastal elites and will gradually progress to where doctors/lawyers/counselors are purged and unemployable if they engage in wrongthink.
Posted on 6/30/21 at 11:19 am to nitwit
quote:Were they?
They were well within their rights to disbar him for professional misconduct outside of politics.
Are investigations into veracity of Giuliani's claims regarding electoral fraud not still ongoing?
Lawyers repeatedly make false claims in court, both in defense and in prosecution.
Is that the standard for disbarment?
No!
Perhaps it should be.
If it was, Andrew Weissmann and Ben Crump would be selling shoes.
I'd be all-in if lying was the standard.
But it is not.
This post was edited on 6/30/21 at 11:20 am
Posted on 6/30/21 at 11:21 am to NC_Tigah
quote:
Giuliani suspension should worry all lawyers
It shouldn't worry anyone...it should motivate lawyers to mobilize against this bullshite
Posted on 6/30/21 at 11:29 am to NC_Tigah
The ruling stated Giuliani made "demonstrably false and misleading statements to courts, lawmakers and the public at large".
It is the height of stupidity and arrogance to lie under oath.
Even Bill Barr thinks he is a moron!
It is the height of stupidity and arrogance to lie under oath.
Even Bill Barr thinks he is a moron!
Posted on 6/30/21 at 11:44 am to BeNotDeceivedGal6_7
quote:
Well, this judge disagrees with you. He ruled that Rachel Maddow's viewers should know she's giving her opinion, not facts. Her show undermined our democracy for 4 years of Trump's presidency.
I agree with that judge, and the judge who said the same about Tucker Carlson. Rudy, OTOH, was not running around the country trying to entertain people with his opinions.
Posted on 6/30/21 at 11:52 am to Dday63
quote:
I agree with that judge, and the judge who said the same about Tucker Carlson. Rudy, OTOH, was not running around the country trying to entertain people with his opinions.
Rush Limbaugh used to make this distinction quite clearly. He stated he was an "entertainer" and not a "journalist" in an effort to lessen his legal liability. Rudy is a moron.
Posted on 6/30/21 at 11:55 am to Zapparocks
quote:
demonstrably false and misleading statements to courts, lawmakers and the public at large
So all lawyers who lie to the public lose their license?
I admit that I am intrigued by this possibility.
Posted on 6/30/21 at 11:57 am to NC_Tigah
quote:
Lawyers repeatedly make false claims in court, both in defense and in prosecution.
No, they don't. Lawyers are not supposed to make factual claims in court at all. Lawyers present evidence (witnesses, documents, videos, etc.) Which provide facts. Some of those facts may be disputed by the other side. Lawyers then put their best spin on the facts to try to win the case, but if the lawyer presents facts that are not part of his evidence, those facts should be ignored.
And if a Lawyer ever realizes that evidence he presented to the court is actually false and inaccurate, he has a duty to inform the court. He cannot knowingly present false facts to the court.
Rudy made demonstrably false statements (such as claiming more absentee ballots were returned in PA than were even mailed out) and no evidentiary basis for those claims. He then repeated those false claims in public and before legislators in an attempt to benefit his client.
As I said before, the suspension and potential disbarrment is heavy handed and politically motivated. I would be satisfied with a fine and public censure. But I don't feel sorry for Rudy. I wish more attorneys would face this treatment in regular cases.
Posted on 6/30/21 at 12:28 pm to Dday63
quote:
I agree with that judge, and the judge who said the same about Tucker Carlson. Rudy, OTOH, was not running around the country trying to entertain people with his opinions.
Right, he was presenting witness after witness and their sworn affidavits that they witnessed election fraud. Rudy states that his reply to the court offered these affidavits and the court did not want to see them. The court also omits this fact in their opinion.
You don't see a problem with that?
Posted on 6/30/21 at 8:29 pm to Zapparocks
quote:
The ruling stated Giuliani made "demonstrably false and misleading statements to courts, lawmakers and the public at large".
In what way did the court demonstrate that his statements were false? Are we just supposed to accept the "because we said so" argument?
If the statements were "demonstrably false", shouldn't the court provide evidence to their statements?
Posted on 6/30/21 at 9:34 pm to BeNotDeceivedGal6_7
quote:
Rudy states that his reply to the court offered these affidavits and the court did not want to see them. T
The Court says Rudy claimed to have affidavits, but did not offer them as evidence. Thats what Rudy has been doing all along; referencing these stacks of affidavits but not letting anyone see them.
You don't just tell the court you have evidence. You attach it as an exhibit.
The fact that Rudy has clearly forgotten how to practice law us another reason he should be suspended.
Posted on 6/30/21 at 9:54 pm to Dday63
quote:
You don't just tell the court you have evidence. You attach it as an exhibit.
Where is the courts evidence that Rudy's statements were "demonstrably false".
quote:
Only uncontroverted claims of professional misconduct may serve as a basis for
interim suspension on this motion
un·con·tro·vert·ed
adjective
of which the truth or validity is not disputed or denied.
I think more than half of America disputes the validity of the election results. There's an audit going on and several more coming. How can the court call Rudy's claims false? It's not been determined yet.
This post was edited on 6/30/21 at 10:16 pm
Posted on 6/30/21 at 10:19 pm to BeNotDeceivedGal6_7
quote:
Where is the courts evidence that Rudy's statements were "demonstrably false".
This is exactly what is so terrifying about it.
Posted on 6/30/21 at 10:25 pm to Wednesday
quote:
This is exactly what is so terrifying about it.
I agree. And these posters who are willing to accept the courts opinion, with ZERO evidence backing their claims while disregarding Rudy's are unbelievable. I hope they are never standing before a court that proclaims, "Just take my word for it."
Posted on 6/30/21 at 10:35 pm to NC_Tigah
Lawyers are mostly leftist nowadays
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