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Message
re: Planned Parenthood keeps saying 3% of their income is from abortions
Posted on 2/1/17 at 5:11 pm to duckdude
Posted on 2/1/17 at 5:11 pm to duckdude
Also, I'll respond to your edit too. Didn't see it when I was typing up my last response.
I see what you're getting at, truly. But to me, those are demonstrably different examples. Jews and blacks are autonomous, living, breathing entities. They can argue with you about why you're wrong to think they are non-human. That's a significant difference from a fetus. There's no debate that those two groups were conscious people.
Also, I fully realize that the above opens me up to the "exactly! Babies in the womb can't even defend themselves so it's barbaric to choose to murder them" counter argument. I guess my response to that would be to reiterate that I personally don't feel that fetuses qualify as human life early in the pregnancy.
quote:
Yeah and back in the day some people didn't think of blacks as people so it was ok to hang one if it got out of line.
Hitler didn't think of the Jews as people either but that doesn't change the facts.
I see what you're getting at, truly. But to me, those are demonstrably different examples. Jews and blacks are autonomous, living, breathing entities. They can argue with you about why you're wrong to think they are non-human. That's a significant difference from a fetus. There's no debate that those two groups were conscious people.
Also, I fully realize that the above opens me up to the "exactly! Babies in the womb can't even defend themselves so it's barbaric to choose to murder them" counter argument. I guess my response to that would be to reiterate that I personally don't feel that fetuses qualify as human life early in the pregnancy.
0
Posted on 2/1/17 at 5:11 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
Correct
This post was edited on 2/1/17 at 5:12 pm
Posted on 2/1/17 at 5:12 pm to Strophie
One late term is to much for me personally.
I looked it up and it appears the youngest Premi to survive and that is expected to live a normal life is 21 weeks.
I didn't mean to throw all this out on a message board, I don't really enjoy this topic, it just seems so crazy to me listening to people trying to justify this but I guess that's what humans do. As I pointed out earlier all thru history people have justified killing by pretending the victims for what ever reason were not really human, it seems to be our natural go to coping device.
I looked it up and it appears the youngest Premi to survive and that is expected to live a normal life is 21 weeks.
I didn't mean to throw all this out on a message board, I don't really enjoy this topic, it just seems so crazy to me listening to people trying to justify this but I guess that's what humans do. As I pointed out earlier all thru history people have justified killing by pretending the victims for what ever reason were not really human, it seems to be our natural go to coping device.
Posted on 2/1/17 at 5:16 pm to skrayper
I can't find the article at the moment, but I think the value of revenue generated from abortions in 2013 was something like 140 million dollars and for the revenue at the time would make it 14.6% of all revenue and ~20% of non-government revenue. It is the money maker.
Posted on 2/1/17 at 5:21 pm to KiwiHead
quote:
ballsinyourmouth, apparently you think that a woman is most times just an innocent victim of a pregnancy and that the evil man did it to her and she did not know what she was doing? Newsflash, if you've ever dated women(probably a stretch- do you play the male or female part with your partner?) you would know that they are every bit as conniving about sex that men are. They know exactly what they are doing. I'm of course leaving out women who are raped.
But you like men.
Quality post. Thanks for adding to the discussion.
Posted on 2/1/17 at 5:22 pm to duckdude
quote:
One late term is to much for me personally.
And that's a fair position to hold. I wasn't trying to browbeat you or tell you you're wrong.
Again, this is something I've personally thought about and wrestled with for a long time. I'm just passing on my personal thinking about it.
Posted on 2/1/17 at 5:30 pm to moneyg
quote:I'm conservative. My views regarding the things you mention here align with arithmetic. Stupid post.
Agree. And, you see the same thing in relation to black on black murder. The liberals don't do anything about it because they don't view a black person's life being taken as murder. They equate that life much lower than that...otherwise, they would do something about it.
Posted on 2/1/17 at 5:30 pm to ballscaster
quote:I haven't plotted and planned if that's what you're talking about because I believe any physical deterrence would result in immoral actions and actually hurt the cause. Public support would swing back to supporting abortion because the methods to prevent it are just as bad or worse. Regardless, I don't need to convince you and I know you won't be. Some people are so given over to their immorality that it really does take a miracle to change them.
You would have put more thought into it than this if you actually thought it was murder. Sorry, but we both know that you'll do nothing to convince me that you actually think that abortion is murder
quote:Germany wasn't brought down by German citizens who were unhappy with Hitler's actions because it was a losing effort. That type of war needed to be fought as an actual war, with armies shooting at each other. This type of "war" is one that has to be fought in the legislatures and court rooms. Any other theater will not achieve the end goal and will ultimately result in more lost lives and destroyed families.
Mathematically speaking (ie, according to body count), Americans who are pro-choice are 10x worse than Hitler. You sure treat these DekaNazis gently. I'm not buying it. You can't sell it with words--only actions can sell the claim that abortion is murder.
quote:Abortion has nothing to do with privacy. The 9th amendment was tortured to accommodate abortion.
Privacy is Liberty. Liberty is an inherent right no matter what any constitution says, and you'll do nothing to take it away
quote:Again, I don't care if you think I take it seriously. I believe the only moral way to fight against this is through our elected leaders. Voting, regularly writing/phoning my representatives, and influencing other citizens to do the same is the best way to fight this. Whether you believe that or "take it seriously" is not my concern. I'm not responding to you to change your mind.
^^^More crap that you wouldn't include in the dialogue if you actually thought about this issue seriously enough to justify your "murder" claim. I'm not buying it because you just don't take this issue seriously. "Abortion is murder" is nothing more than a hobby for you.
quote:They are different, but not because one is murder and one isn't or because I'm inconsistent in my application of self defense. It comes down to Just War theory.
Nice try, but you'll not turn this around on me. I'm advocating honesty. That is, just admit that it's different from murder (even if you find it morally reprehensible, as do I), hence your disparate treatment of the issues of abortion and murder. If you saw a person with a gun pointed at a toddler 10 feet from you, you'd put yourself in harm's way to protect the child for obvious reasons, but if you walk by an abortion clinic, the most you'll ever do is pass out a pamphlet or two. You treat these two situations differently because they are different. We have two different words for these things because they are two different things.
quote:Not quite. You think they aren't the same thing because an unborn child isn't a live person with a right to life that should be defended. I believe that they aren't the same because of the circumstances that dictate different responses.
Precisely, 100%, my point.
Posted on 2/1/17 at 5:32 pm to Strophie
quote:
I'm not sure how I feel about abortion full stop. But I don't believe true human life, qualitatively, starts at conception. I have lots of friends and family who are adamant that it does. But whenever I ask the following, they can't give an answer consistent with that position.
Say you come upon a burning house. In the house are two rooms. In one room is a rack holding 100 fully fertilized eggs (or 2 month old fetuses, or whatever). In the other room is a four year old little girl. You have exactly enough time to run into the house and save the occupant(s) of one room. The occupant(s) of the other room are guaranteed to burn to death.
Now, if you truly believe, qualitatively, that human life begins at conception and is equally as valuable as born, conscious life, you would presumably choose to save the rack full of fetuses/fertilized eggs. After all, doing so would be like saving the little girl one hundred times over. And yet, I've never had anyone who I've discussed this with state that their choice would be to save the eggs/fetuses.
Could one not argue that an unborn human life is less valuable than a born human life, while still maintaining that the unborn human life is still true human life?
Posted on 2/1/17 at 5:33 pm to KiwiHead
quote:No, I don't even put much thought into it to draw any conclusion like this. It isn't any of my business. That's the point.
ballsinyourmouth, apparently you think that a woman is most times just an innocent victim of a pregnancy and that the evil man did it to her and she did not know what she was doing?
quote:Proving my point. If abortion is murder, why would you even bring up sex?
Newsflash, if you've ever dated women(probably a stretch- do you play the male or female part with your partner?) you would know that they are every bit as conniving about sex that men are.
quote:No, I'm straight. Your post is stupid. You don't bring anything to the table intellectually. Stop talking to me.
But you like men.
Posted on 2/1/17 at 5:38 pm to ballscaster
quote:
I'm conservative
I really don't care how you view yourself.
quote:
My views regarding the things you mention here align with arithmetic
quote:
My views regarding the things you mention here align with arithmetic
I really don't care about your views and didn't reference them.
quote:
Stupid post
Your post was very defensive and didn't actually address mine as a result.
Since you seem to need help, I was commenting on the logic you were using.
Posted on 2/1/17 at 5:38 pm to FooManChoo
quote:Proving my point. All you do in the abortion debate is the same thing I do in the abortion debate: judge people. If it was murder, you'd do something. But you'll do nothing. Because you don't believe that it's murder. You never did, and you never will.
Some people are so given over to their immorality that it really does take a miracle to change them.
quote:If she wants it to, it does. You don't get to decide for her, and you don't get to find out about it if she doesn't want you to. Hers, not yours. No means no.
Abortion has nothing to do with privacy.
Posted on 2/1/17 at 5:39 pm to ballscaster
Let me guess, you don't buy it?
Posted on 2/1/17 at 5:40 pm to anc
The bottom line is our Gov't should not be paying for one persons abortion. That is retarded. They screwed up and they pay for their own baby murder. Trump should at least deduct abortion funding from Planned Parenthood.
Posted on 2/1/17 at 5:41 pm to moneyg
quote:
I really don't care how you view yourself.
quote:You brought these things up, not me.
I really don't care about your views
quote:Because your post had nothing to do with me.
Your post ... didn't actually address mine
quote:Getting personal. Very gay.
Since you seem to need help
Posted on 2/1/17 at 5:42 pm to Sapere
quote:
Could one not argue that an unborn human life is less valuable than a born human life, while still maintaining that the unborn human life is still true human life?
Absolutely; and that's a much more rational argument, to me. Mind, you I still don't agree with it, but it is much more defensible.
To be clear, that's why I gave the caveat at the bottom of my original post that the thought experiment doesn't argue definitively that there is NO value to embryonic life. Just that comparatively, it's not on the same field as born life.
Posted on 2/1/17 at 5:48 pm to Sapere
quote:Perhaps it's important to note that being pro-choice usually has nothing to do with whether or not one thinks that abortion is wrong, but rather whether it is the government's place to violate Liberty in pursuit of eliminating abortion. Millions of people, such as myself, are simultaneously anti-abortion and effectively pro-choice.
Could one not argue that an unborn human life is less valuable than a born human life, while still maintaining that the unborn human life is still true human life?
Posted on 2/1/17 at 5:50 pm to ballscaster
quote:Regrettably
Women and their roles in society have changed immensely since WWII
quote:Doesn't bother me in the bit personally because I'm one of the dudes at the top of their list to frick. But it's bad for society as a whole and the children that are being raised in our society.
You don't think there's a shite ton of men with traditional sexual habits who are uncomfortable living in a world where women everywhere frick everyone except and make more money than their fat bald no-game-for-miles asses?
Posted on 2/1/17 at 5:52 pm to ballscaster
quote:
ballscaster
My man!
Posted on 2/1/17 at 6:03 pm to anc
quote:
We know that the average cost of an abortion is, conservatively, around 450 dollars.
Planned Parenthood performs services on a sliding scale basis. Those who are not employed pay far less. Those who make decent money pay full cost.
Most of their locations don't perform abortions. I think there was a thread on PP of Indiana and Kentucky last week, and there are 17 or 18 locations and only four perform abortions.
Per the numbers, the latest that I looked for in a quick search was 2014, PP performed...
-323,999 abortions
-provided sex education to 1.5 million
-2 milion reversible contraception patients
-941,589 emergency contraception kits
-3,445 vasectomies
-718 female sterilization procedures
-1.1 pregnancy million tests
-17,419 people for prenatal care
-4.2 million tests and treatments for STD's
-270,000 cervical cancer screenings
-360,000 breast exams
-more than 70 research projects
I think you underestimate all of the services that they provide.
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