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Started By
Message
re: Pentagon blames Afghan army in closed House briefing: 'You can't buy willpower'
Posted on 8/16/21 at 11:25 am to cajunangelle
Posted on 8/16/21 at 11:25 am to cajunangelle
They did this on purpose.
0
Posted on 8/16/21 at 11:28 am to Irons Puppet
quote:I am absolutely shocked. You seem like such a fine gentleman.
Not really…
Infantry for seven years (SSG 11B3O).
ROTC (DMG) for three.
Medical Service Corps for thirty (COL 70H).
Posted on 8/16/21 at 11:32 am to Wolfhound45
quote:
ROTC (DMG) for three.
You should have said MacArthur Award. DMG is beneath him.
Posted on 8/16/21 at 11:34 am to cajunangelle
quote:
Pentagon blames
Pretty much all you need to read. Military leadership incompetence and blame is a tradition as old as Rome.
Posted on 8/16/21 at 11:36 am to Wolfhound45
quote:
I am absolutely shocked. You seem like such a fine gentleman.
Infantry for seven years (SSG 11B3O).
ROTC (DMG) for three.
Medical Service Corps for thirty (COL 70H).
Try not to judge people who disagree with your opinion. We all want the same goals for this country, some people do not think we are living up to those standards, and some people are questioning why. You define patriotism as defending the "company line" and I define it as standing up against what you see is wrong with the "company line". One is not anymore patriotic as the other. So again, get off your high horse.
Posted on 8/16/21 at 11:39 am to Irons Puppet
quote:
You define patriotism as defending the "company line" and I define it as standing up against what you see is wrong with the "company line". One is not anymore patriotic as the other. So again, get off your high horse.
Yeah, he has done no such thing. You strike me as the type of officer who gets caught in a huge falsehood and pulls rank on those who call you out, then threatens any IG that hears their complaints.
If Wolfhound "defended the company line", by his own admission he would be wearing at least 1 star right now instead of retired as a Colonel...an outcome he is perfectly happy with.
This post was edited on 8/16/21 at 11:41 am
Posted on 8/16/21 at 11:40 am to Irons Puppet
You have no idea what my position is on this matter. You have missed the point from the very beginning. You are trying to attribute the poor performance of the ANA on their training by the National Guard (which occurred in later rotations when we were engaged simultaneously in Iraq and Afghanistan). You also disparaged the rationale for why the National Guard was deployed into theater. You have the most rudimentary understanding of the problem set.
There are a myriad of contributing factors to their unwillingness to fight. Who trained them is very low on that list.
There are a myriad of contributing factors to their unwillingness to fight. Who trained them is very low on that list.
Posted on 8/16/21 at 11:41 am to Wolfhound45
quote:
There are a myriad of contributing factors to their unwillingness to fight.
The biggest is that what THEY prioritized is drastically different than what we expected them to prioritize.
It's like getting pissed at a puppy when he grabs your shoe and puts it in your lap. To him, he's just trying to show affection. No matter how well you train a dog, he's still a dog.
This post was edited on 8/16/21 at 11:43 am
Posted on 8/16/21 at 11:52 am to CGSC Lobotomy
quote:One of the better articles I read (published in 2011) when I returned from theater after completing the initial training of the first Kandaks put into the field. Really helped me to understand my frustration with their lack of cohesiveness.
The biggest is that what THEY prioritized is drastically different than what we expected them to prioritize.
Opinion - Washington Post - Will the Afghan army ever stand up and fight?
Transitioning from AMF to ANA (2003)
Posted on 8/16/21 at 11:56 am to Wolfhound45
tHaT !s wR0nG! I rEaD tEh aARRR!
Posted on 8/16/21 at 11:56 am to CGSC Lobotomy
quote:Damn you
tHaT !s wR0nG! I rEaD tEh aARRR!
Posted on 8/16/21 at 12:01 pm to cajunangelle
quote:
"you can’t buy willpower"
quote:
"You can’t buy willpower, and you can’t buy leadership,"
This is bullshite and they know it.
The Afghan army was and still is a paper tiger and this was the biggest open secret amongst the US Military for a long time.
The afghan army didn't fight because they agree with the Taliban. They want to fall to the Taliban.
The top brass lied to us about this for damn near 20 years and it's just now being revealed for all to see in the most disastrous manner possible.
Posted on 8/16/21 at 12:04 pm to Sentrius
I want to see if I have this straight.
1. We trained them for 20 years and gave them equipment
2. We planned a draw down, expecting these people to protect our retreat and fight the taliban as they tried to take over the country.
3. We were expecting the taliban to eventually win
4. Therefore, we were basically expecting these people to die and get their asses kicked collectively so we can leave
You don’t think the Security force knew that? I’d fricking surrender immediately too, frick that
1. We trained them for 20 years and gave them equipment
2. We planned a draw down, expecting these people to protect our retreat and fight the taliban as they tried to take over the country.
3. We were expecting the taliban to eventually win
4. Therefore, we were basically expecting these people to die and get their asses kicked collectively so we can leave
You don’t think the Security force knew that? I’d fricking surrender immediately too, frick that
This post was edited on 8/16/21 at 12:05 pm
Posted on 8/16/21 at 12:06 pm to Wolfhound45
quote:
You have no idea what my position is on this matter. You have missed the point from the very beginning. You are trying to attribute the poor performance of the ANA on their training by the National Guard (which occurred in later rotations when we were engaged simultaneously in Iraq and Afghanistan). You also disparaged the rationale for why the National Guard was deployed into theater. You have the most rudimentary understanding of the problem set.
There are a myriad of contributing factors to their unwillingness to fight. Who trained them is very low on that list.
You missed the point, I never criticized individual soldiers from the NG who were sent there to perform that mission. I criticized the Leadership that decided to use them in that capacity. Like I said, there is a USAR Training Division (100th) that is specifically designed and trained for that mission. They never used them in that capacity.
The ETT were directed for use in Afghanistan in 2003 to train the ANA forces. Your understanding of the use of Reserve Forces during that time is limited. Rumsfeld put a cap on how many RC soldiers could be called up (180K), he also limited the time they could be on AD (24 months). You need to study the different RC Mobilization. With the cap and the limited mobilizations, we burnt through critical MOSs early in the Wars. That is why you saw Armor and Chemical Units being retrained as MPs in 2004. Hands were tied by the Leadership early in the War and it continued until yesterday. Instead of a total Mobilization of RC, it was piecemealed for 18+ years.
You claim to be a military historian, where was the Taliban in the Winter of 2004 ? What kind of shape were they in. How did the US respond.
This post was edited on 8/16/21 at 12:08 pm
Posted on 8/16/21 at 12:10 pm to cajunangelle
Is the French army happy that the new cliché is the Afghan army?
Posted on 8/16/21 at 12:11 pm to cajunangelle
US intelligence should have known that there was no loyalty in the Afghan army to fold like they did. The ball bounces right back on this administration.
Posted on 8/16/21 at 12:11 pm to Tiguar
quote:
You don’t think the Security force knew that? I’d fricking surrender immediately too, frick that
Right, it's a plan that ignores human nature of self preservation aside from their ideological agreement with the taliban.
A clear eyed assessment would've recognized this flaw in the original plan and had our military taking all the necessary steps to secure the Kabul airport, the embassy and the routes between them as the evacs go ahead.
We also should've used Bagram as our final rallying and exit point out of the country once the embassy in Kabul is shut down.
Posted on 8/16/21 at 12:14 pm to Irons Puppet
quote:If you only knew
Your understanding of the use of Reserve Forces during that time is limited.
Your issue is with a very short-sighted Secretary of Defense who was a micro-manager to the nth degree. It did in fact produce serious shortfalls in subsequent rotations (which he helped to create). That does not speak to your disparagement of the National Guard in your initial post. If you understood the Total Force (something few Active Component officers do) then you can see how they were poised to contribute to the fight but were frittered away (as was all Reserve Component strength at that time).
That does not change the fact that the worldview of the average Afghan is tribal in nature. Their first loyalty is to their clan. From that you were never going to create a Western style Army no matter who trained them and what weaponry they were provided with.
Posted on 8/16/21 at 12:21 pm to cajunangelle
We need to purge our military of all officers, colonel and above and comparable ranks in the navy. They are worthless and just waste the lives of our troops and billions of dollars.
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