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Message
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Posted on 7/11/18 at 8:59 am to VOR
quote:
Where did all of this anti- alliance, anti- foreign, hysteria come from?
Your premise is bullshite.
The United States has been opposed to open ended, permanent foreign alliances for the vast majority of our existence. The geopolitical contexts following WWI and WWII changed that. Alliances are sometimes wise and effective and sometimes not. That you think only "nutty" "hystericals" can have a position critical of an alliance system and its utility/costs is pretty nutty itself.
Posted on 7/11/18 at 9:05 am to Seldom Seen
quote:
Good thing NATO has had our backs huh? We might have lost some of those wars without them.
MIGHT?
quote:
Korean War - Draw
Vietnam War - Loss
Cold War - Win
Gulf War - Win (to call this a "war" is silly and there was never a question about the result)
War in Iraq - Loss
War in Afghanistan - Loss
Global War on Terrorism - Unending
And our NATO allies fought/are still fighting with us in every one of those.
Posted on 7/11/18 at 9:07 am to Sticky37
The United States, and its capability to destroy the entire world, is the reason that we've had overall global peace (i.e., no world war) since WWII.
This post was edited on 7/11/18 at 9:08 am
Posted on 7/11/18 at 9:40 am to ChewyDante
On balance, NATO has served us well. NATO troops fought with us in both Iraq and Afghanistan. RegRdless of whether you supported those wars, our allies provided support.
Posted on 7/11/18 at 9:47 am to Sticky37
quote:
"NATO is the reason that we've had peace since the end of WW2"
We've been at war in some way, shape, or form ever since World War 2.
Posted on 7/11/18 at 9:56 am to VOR
quote:
On balance, NATO has served us well.
Like I said earlier, I believe NATO was a sensible alliance system post-WWII as a counter to the USSR.
quote:
NATO troops fought with us in both Iraq and Afghanistan. RegRdless of whether you supported those wars, our allies provided support.
To an extent, sure. But it doesn't require an alliance system like NATO for Western states to support each other in anti-terrorist operations or UN sanctioned military campaigns such as Iraq.
Posted on 7/11/18 at 11:23 am to Salmon
quote:
peace between super powers
the OP is exactly right
Not really. We just fought those wars via proxy.
Posted on 7/11/18 at 11:25 am to DallasTiger
quote:
War in Iraq - Loss
War in Afghanistan - Loss
What is your definition of "loss?'
Posted on 7/11/18 at 11:29 am to ChewyDante
quote:
NATO troops fought with us in both Iraq and Afghanistan. RegRdless of whether you supported those wars, our allies provided support.
Some like Spain ran away like scared little girls.
Posted on 7/11/18 at 11:31 am to VOR
quote:
NATO troops fought with us in both Iraq and Afghanistan. RegRdless of whether you supported those wars, our allies provided support.
Lulz
Posted on 7/11/18 at 11:44 am to infantry1026
NATO was not just formed as a treaty alliance.....despite the official line. It's more of a security arrangement that was aimed at thwarting Communist (Russian) expansion westward, which was a very real concern in the immediate post war period especially in places like France, Italy and Greece.
After the war there was a real concern that the Communists would have control of both France and Italy and there was no way that the US and Britain were going to let that happen.
NATO has always been a very affirmative defense type of alliance thus you see in the years after the Cold War how NATO has expanded even into former Soviet countries like Lithuania and Estonia and it has essentially absorbed the old Warsaw Pact. It was also was designed to keep Germany down as well because there was always the eventuality that Germany would be reunified
It serves a purpose in that it keeps the Russians in check. The Russians are not docile - see Crimea and eastern Ukraine and they are beginning to wield influence more in the Middle East and Turkey
After the war there was a real concern that the Communists would have control of both France and Italy and there was no way that the US and Britain were going to let that happen.
NATO has always been a very affirmative defense type of alliance thus you see in the years after the Cold War how NATO has expanded even into former Soviet countries like Lithuania and Estonia and it has essentially absorbed the old Warsaw Pact. It was also was designed to keep Germany down as well because there was always the eventuality that Germany would be reunified
It serves a purpose in that it keeps the Russians in check. The Russians are not docile - see Crimea and eastern Ukraine and they are beginning to wield influence more in the Middle East and Turkey
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