re: Myth of Robert E. Lee: Legend of Robert E. Lee's heroism and decency is based on fiction

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We need people who look forward, not backwards.

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This. How many times have we had this exact same thread/argument on this board in the past two months?

It has to be at least 50

That was an amazing manure Fest full of ignorance and contradiction.

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You are leaving out a sizable portion of the population, especially in the south, who KNEW blacks were equal to whites....and that was black folks....but of course they don't count......

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Is this a for-real post? Bookmarked When I am searching for the perfect example of "obtuse" to help someone understand the definition, I will refer back.

I'm no fan of Southern history and have no affinity for it. But it is never a good idea to judge people from the past based on the standards and mores of the present.

Robert E. Lee was also against gay marriage.

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Well, and Thomas Jefferson.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

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I'm a Thomas Jefferson fan, but if you can't see that, given his lifestyle, he very likely wasn't including black people in that statement, you can't be helped.

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"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

I'm a Thomas Jefferson fan, but if you can't see that, given his lifestyle, he very likely wasn't including black people in that statement, you can't be helped.

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One of Jefferson's better known quotes is that "Slavery is like having a wolf by the ears. You don't like it but you don't dare let go."

Here is another. This is a panel on the Jefferson Memorial:

"God who gave us life gave us liberty. Can the liberties of a nation be secure when we have removed a conviction that these liberties are the gift of God? Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, that his justice cannot sleep forever. Commerce between master and slave is despotism. Nothing is more certainly written in the book of fate than that these people are to be free. Establish a law for educating the common people. This it is the business of the state and on a general plan."

ORIGINAL PASSAGES

"But let them [members of the parliament of Great Britain] not think to exclude us from going to other markets, to dispose of those commodities which they cannot use, nor to supply those wants which they cannot supply. Still less let it be proposed that our properties within our own territories shall be taxed or regulated by any power on earth but our own. The god who gave us life gave us liberty at the same time: the hand of force may destroy, but cannot disjoin them." - "A Summary View of the Rights of British America"4

"For in a warm climate, no man will labour for himself who can make another labour for him. This is so true, that of the proprietors of slaves a very small proportion indeed are ever seen to labor. And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are the gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with his wrath? Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just: that his justice cannot sleep for ever . . . ." - Notes on the State of Virginia, Query XVIII5

"The whole commerce between master and slave is a perpetual exercise of the most boisterous passions, the most unremitting despotism on the one part, and degrading submissions on the other. Our children see this, and learn to imitate it. . . ." - Notes on the State of Virginia, Query XVIII6

"Nothing is more certainly written in the book of fate than that these people are to be free. Nor is it less certain that the two races, equally free, cannot live in the same government. Nature, habit, opinion has drawn indelible lines of distinction between them." - Jefferson's Autobiography7


"Preach, my dear sir, a crusade against ignorance; establish & improve the law for educating the common people." - Jefferson to George Wythe, August 13, 1786


This is one section that Jefferson wrote in the D of I that was edited out:

"He has waged cruel war against human nature itself, violating its most sacred rights of life and liberty in the persons of a distant people who never offended him, captivating & carrying them into slavery in another hemisphere or to incur miserable death in their transportation thither. This piratical warfare, the opprobrium of infidel powers, is the warfare of the Christian King of Great Britain. Determined to keep open a market where Men should be bought & sold, he has prostituted his negative for suppressing every legislative attempt to prohibit or restrain this execrable commerce. And that this assemblage of horrors might want no fact of distinguished die, he is now exciting those very people to rise in arms among us, and to purchase that liberty of which he has deprived them, by murdering the people on whom he has obtruded them: thus paying off former crimes committed again the Liberties of one people, with crimes which he urges them to commit against the lives of another."

- See more at: LINK

He doesn't say black men - he says men.

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We need people who look forward, not backwards. This. How many times have we had this exact same thread/argument on this board in the past two months?

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Whenever falsehoods are put forward they need to be countered.

I myself -never- start these threads and I am heartily tired of them. It is the neo-rebs who run their false narrative all the freaking time.

Secession was NOT legal.

The war WAS about slavery.

Lincoln was NOT a tyrant.

From Lincoln's Speech, Sept. 18, 1858.

"While I was at the hotel to-day, an elderly gentleman called upon me to know whether I was really in favor of producing a perfect equality between the negroes and white people. While I had not proposed to myself on this occasion to say much on that subject, yet as the question was asked me I thought I would occupy perhaps five minutes in saying something in regard to it. I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the black and white races -- that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making VOTERS or jurors of negroes, NOR OF QUALIFYING THEM HOLD OFFICE, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any of her man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race."

"Judge DOUGLAS has said to you that he has not been able to get from me an answer to the question whether I am in favor of negro citizenship. So far as I know the Judge never asked me the question before. He shall have no occasion to ever ask it again, for I tell him very frankly that I AM NOT IN FAVOR OF NEGRO CITIZENSHIP. This furnishes me an occasion for saying a few words upon the subject. I mentioned in a certain speech of mine which has been printed, that the Supreme Court had decided that a negro could not possibly be made a citizen, and without saying what was my ground of complaint in regard to that, or whether I had any ground of complaint, Judge DOUGLAS has from that thing manufactured nearly every thing that he ever says about my disposition to produce an equality between the negroes and the white people. If any one will read my speech, he will find I mentioned that as one of the points decided in the course of the Supreme Court opinions, but I did not state what objection I had to it. But Judge DOUGLAS tells the people what my objection was when I did not tell them myself. Now my opinion is that the different States have the power to make a negro a citizen under the Constitution of the United States if they choose. The Dred Scott decision decides that they have not that power. If the State of Illinois had that power, I SHOULD BE OPPOSED TO THE EXERCISE OF IT. That is all I have to say about it."

from devil abe's lips to your ears.

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Lincoln was NOT a tyrant.

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Maryland says 'hi'