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Message
re: Mississippi wins right to enforce religious exemptions law
Posted on 6/24/17 at 8:50 am to Machine
Posted on 6/24/17 at 8:50 am to Machine
quote:
If the supreme court votes in favor of the state of Mississippi, they're efficiently nullifying equal protection under the 14th amendment.
Your understanding of the 14th Amendment is limited, at best
This post was edited on 6/24/17 at 8:51 am
Posted on 6/24/17 at 8:54 am to ForkEmDemons
quote:
That isn't freedom, that is discrimination.
These aren't mutually exclusive ideas.
quote:
The entire civil rights movement was fought to prevent people from discriminating against minorities.
No, the primary basis of the Civil Rights Movement was to prevent the government from discriminating against minorities
Posted on 6/24/17 at 9:05 am to bfniii
quote:
ABSTENTION IS NOT DISCRIMINATION. abstention is passive. discrimination is active. huge, HUGE difference.
If you refuse service to every gay person because they are gay, yeah it's discrimination.
See civil rights era sit ins. Restaurants wouldn't serve black people so they decided to sit in the restaurant anyway.
Posted on 6/24/17 at 9:20 am to MastrShake
quote:
and if anyone can give an explanation for why "marriage is the union of one man and one woman" that doesn't come down to "because the bible says so", then Id be fascinated to hear it.
Simply put, where procreation is impossible marriage is irrelevant and not needed.
You see between a man and a women procreation is, in theory, always possible. And it is that possibility, as a matter of law and government that gave rise to the institution of marriage in the first place.
On the other hand when it is impossible - as it is between two males or two females and allow them to be married and call that action a marriage you are saying that marriage can be understood apart from procreation. You have just changed its definition in such a way you destroy the necessity for the institution - Since the only reason it has existed in human societies and civilizations was to regulate from a social point of view the obligations and responsibilities attendant upon procreation.
IMO, When you start playing games in this way you are actually acting as if the institution has no basis independent of your own arbitrary whim.
Posted on 6/24/17 at 9:22 am to ForkEmDemons
quote:
That isn't freedom
Yes it is. How is it not? Everyone in my scenario was free to act how they choose to.
quote:
that is discrimination.
Yes, it is. Freedom does not mean you won't be discriminated against by other free individuals.
Posted on 6/24/17 at 9:56 am to threeputt
quote:
quote: and if anyone can give an explanation for why "marriage is the union of one man and one woman" that doesn't come down to "because the bible says so", then Id be fascinated to hear it. Simply put, where procreation is impossible marriage is irrelevant and not needed. You see between a man and a women procreation is, in theory, always possible. And it is that possibility, as a matter of law and government that gave rise to the institution of marriage in the first place. On the other hand when it is impossible - as it is between two males or two females and allow them to be married and call that action a marriage you are saying that marriage can be understood apart from procreation. You have just changed its definition in such a way you destroy the necessity for the institution - Since the only reason it has existed in human societies and civilizations was to regulate from a social point of view the obligations and responsibilities attendant upon procreation. IMO, When you start playing games in this way you are actually acting as if the institution has no basis independent of your own arbitrary whim.
Where'd you read that?
Posted on 6/24/17 at 10:51 am to AggieDub14
quote:
If you refuse service to every gay person because they are gay, yeah it's discrimination.
See civil rights era sit ins. Restaurants wouldn't serve black people so they decided to sit in the restaurant anyway.
Understand what you are saying, but aren't there clubs in the country that do not allow female members? Is that discrimination, and if so why haven' the courts struck that down?
ETA
LINK
Augusta National, for instance?
Lest we think men are the only discriminators, let's look at the women:
5 Women only clubs
This post was edited on 6/24/17 at 10:59 am
Posted on 6/24/17 at 10:52 am to UGATiger26
Legal discrimination happens all the time.
I'm still waiting for my social security check to arrive even though I'm being discriminated against for being too young to receive it. Discrimination by the government, no less!
I'm still waiting for my social security check to arrive even though I'm being discriminated against for being too young to receive it. Discrimination by the government, no less!
Posted on 6/24/17 at 11:11 am to AggieDub14
quote:
If you refuse service to every gay person because they are gay, yeah it's discrimination.
See civil rights era sit ins. Restaurants wouldn't serve black people so they decided to sit in the restaurant anyway
Evidently you don't understand this bill. It is only for religious ceremonies. Do you feel a church should be required to perform a marriage to a gay couple if it is against their religion?
Posted on 6/24/17 at 11:16 am to Machine
quote:
Yikes
If the supreme court votes in favor of the state of Mississippi, they're efficiently nullifying equal protection under the 14th amendment.
Which would be fantastic!
The 14th amendment is the most bastardized Amendment of them all.
The whole damn amendment needs to be repealed.
Posted on 6/24/17 at 2:33 pm to ForkEmDemons
quote:you are wrong as I have stated multiple times on this claim
That isn't freedom, that is discrimination
quote:again, ridiculously incorrect. That person is free to go SOMEWHERE ELSE for the exact same service/product/business. They are being denied NOTHING
Allowing this insures that certain people are not free.
Why do I have to keep typing the same things over and over?
Posted on 6/24/17 at 2:38 pm to AggieDub14
quote:you are wrong. I gave you the plain English definition of the words. Those people were perfectly free to go SOMEWHERE ELSE for the exact same thing
If you refuse service to every gay person because they are gay, yeah it's discrimination
Posted on 6/24/17 at 3:56 pm to bfniii
I love how you think just because they can go somewhere else that it changes the definition of discrimination. I didn't say it was illegal discrimination, but it is still textbook discrimination. Learn the meaning of words.
Posted on 6/24/17 at 4:30 pm to AggieDub14
quote:the definition never changed. discrimination would be if they couldn't get the service at all. iow, society is actively preventing someone from equal opportunity. not getting it from a certain place is in no way, shape or form discrimination.
I love how you think just because they can go somewhere else that it changes the definition of discrimination
quote:i understand the plain english meaning just fine. i also understand the difference between active and passive, which you apparently don't.
Learn the meaning of words.
of course, this is keeping in mind that we're discussing social/cultural discrimination. not ubiquitous discrimination which all people do every moment of every day. i think you might be conflating the two.
Posted on 6/24/17 at 5:55 pm to bfniii
The definition of discrimination doesn't include the words active or passive. Keep making up definitions though.
Posted on 6/24/17 at 6:06 pm to threeputt
quote:
Simply put, where procreation is impossible marriage is irrelevant and not needed.
This argument may be relevant if there weren't financial benefits bestowed upon married couples by the government
Posted on 6/24/17 at 10:55 pm to Antonio Moss
Antonio - the primary purpose of the Civil Rights movement was to gain public accommodations (Title 2), and employment rights (Title 7).
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