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re: Milo on Jehovah’s Witness, Christian Scientists, Mormons, etc

Posted on 12/6/24 at 1:58 pm to
Posted by BamaMamaof2
Atlanta, GA
Member since Nov 2019
2650 posts
Posted on 12/6/24 at 1:58 pm to
No, I completely understand, you don't seem to understand that I said, Holy Gospels.
There are only 4 Holy Gospels in the Bible.

What are the four gospels in the Bible?
However, at the core of the Holy Bible are four accounts, known as the Gospels, that are the only books that tell of the life and times of the central figure in Christianity, Jesus Christ. These Gospels, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, therefore are among the most holy texts for Christians.
Posted by Jack Bauers HnK
Baton Rouge
Member since Jul 2008
6041 posts
Posted on 12/6/24 at 2:02 pm to
quote:

I said you put the writing of Paul above those of the HOLY GOSPELS.
There are only 4 books in the Bible that are consider holy, Matthew, John, Mark, and Luke. These are the written word of Christ.


Jesus didn’t write the gospels. Jesus spoke far more words in his lifetime than ended up being recorded in those books. Neither the gospels nor Paul’s letters are to be put “above” the other. They are both to be put above any tradition of men.

Posted by Jack Bauers HnK
Baton Rouge
Member since Jul 2008
6041 posts
Posted on 12/6/24 at 2:04 pm to
quote:

These Gospels, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, therefore are among the most holy texts for Christians.


This statement begs the question, exactly what is the ranking of holiness among texts for Christians? To what resource can one be directed to know the order of holiness among texts?
Posted by Stitches
Member since Oct 2019
1242 posts
Posted on 12/6/24 at 2:06 pm to
quote:

Sort of. I'm saying that whatever authority was given to Peter (whether at first as an individual--as Rome argues--or as a representative of the disciples--as Protestants typically argue), that authority was also given to the other disciples/apostles and then passed to the elders/overseers after them and that authority is not unique to Peter.


Thanks for clarifying. That is exactly how the 4th Lateran Council explained it too; that Peter received the keys in a unique way in Matthew 16, but then the privileges associated with the keys is extended to the other Apostles corporately in Matthew 18.

The Catechism sums it up nicely:

CCC 553 (1992)

Jesus entrusted a specific authority to Peter: "I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven." The "power of the keys" designates authority to govern the house of God, which is the Church. Jesus, the Good Shepherd, confirmed this mandate after his Resurrection: "Feed my sheep." The power to "bind and loose" connotes the authority to absolve sins, to pronounce doctrinal judgments, and to make disciplinary decisions in the Church. Jesus entrusted this authority to the Church through the ministry of the apostles and in particular through the ministry of Peter, the only one to whom he specifically entrusted the keys of the kingdom.

My previous point was simply that sharing the ministry of the keys does not equal bearing the keys.
Posted by BamaMamaof2
Atlanta, GA
Member since Nov 2019
2650 posts
Posted on 12/6/24 at 2:15 pm to
The narrative of Jesus life and words he spoke are considered Holy. Only his deeds and words are Holy.
Posted by dchog
Pea Ridge
Member since Nov 2012
26709 posts
Posted on 12/6/24 at 2:30 pm to
Some gentiles were saved in the old testament.
Posted by Jack Bauers HnK
Baton Rouge
Member since Jul 2008
6041 posts
Posted on 12/6/24 at 2:32 pm to
That’s an amazing statement. Upon what authority does one base a declaration that that some scripture is Holy, but other scripture is not Holy? What’s the difference between Holy and non-Holy scripture? Is the implication that Holy scripture is more correct than non-Holy scripture?

2 Timothy 3:16-17 (ESV) 16 All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.

Is Paul’s statement an error? Is only some scripture breathed out by God but not other scripture? Did God breathe out all scripture, but made a mistake Himself in some of it?
Posted by FooManChoo
Member since Dec 2012
45562 posts
Posted on 12/6/24 at 4:12 pm to
quote:

My previous point was simply that sharing the ministry of the keys does not equal bearing the keys.
I am actually making the opposite point. That the keys are directly connected with the authority to bind and loose and representative of that authority. Clearly Peter was not given any physical keys from Jesus, so the statement itself was symbolic of authority, and that authority was applied through this binding and loosing that Peter and the rest of the disciples were given between Matt. 16 and 18.
Posted by BamaMamaof2
Atlanta, GA
Member since Nov 2019
2650 posts
Posted on 12/6/24 at 4:14 pm to
I never said Paul was not honest, but most Christians believe that the words of Jesus are Holy and that is in the 4 Gospels.

According to most Christian denominations, within the Bible, only the four canonical Gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John) are considered "holy" and part of the divinely inspired scripture, while other "gospels" not included in the New Testament, often called apocryphal gospels, are not considered holy due to their later authorship and potential for embellishment or inaccurate details about Jesus' life.
Key points to remember:
Canonical Gospels:
These are the four gospels recognized as part of the Christian Bible and considered to be divinely inspired.
Posted by FooManChoo
Member since Dec 2012
45562 posts
Posted on 12/6/24 at 4:17 pm to
quote:

I said you put the writing of Paul above those of the HOLY GOSPELS.
There are only 4 books in the Bible that are consider holy, Matthew, John, Mark, and Luke. These are the written word of Christ.
These writings contain the words of Christ, but so do the books of Acts, 1 Corinthians, and Revelation, and the rest of the New Testament either quotes the Gospels or allude to Jesus' teachings in one way or another. You sound like a "red letter" Catholic, which I don't think I've ever heard of before.

quote:

Espesians is not a gospel,but shouldn't be ignored either.
While not considered a "Gospel" in the strict sense of directly narrating Jesus' life, the book of Ephesians is widely considered to be full of the Gospel message, presenting the core truths of Jesus Christ's saving grace and emphasizing its application to daily life within the Christian community; essentially, it is a rich exposition of the Gospel principles rather than a separate narrative of Jesus' life.
Yes, but more importantly, it's the written word of God.

Are you making a distinction in authority between the Gospels and the Epistles and other writings of the New Testament? I want to be clear about what you're actually saying.
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