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Started By
Message
re: Mark Levin on Tariffs
Posted on 7/25/18 at 11:14 am to dewster
Posted on 7/25/18 at 11:14 am to dewster
quote:
Crickets
Pretty much. I think everyone can agree that a perfect world would be free trade. However, we don't have free trade. Not even close.
Regardless if that barrier to entry is a bad policy for those other countries, having an artificially higher barrier to entry into a market than that market has into ours is bad for our country. Period.
We all want free trade. So, how do you achieve it?
1
Posted on 7/25/18 at 11:15 am to CorporateTiger
quote:
Oh so that was definitely because of tariffs and not anything else.
Uhh, no. That's not what I said.
Virtually all of the goods we export, we turn right around and import back from foreign entities.
We import it from them without penalty. They import from us and charge exorbitant taxes and fees.
And in the end, they end up with more money overall in the deal. Over $800 billion worth. For us to export and import nearly the same shite.
And in the meantime, our domestic companies are struggling to compete with foreign pricing because cost of doing business in the US is more expensive than cost of doing business abroad and just exporting back to the US.
So when this happens, jobs leave, which means GDP leaves. But the consumption needs remains the same.
This becomes an exponentially expanding issue, like water funneling down a toilet bowl.
More companies leave, produce abroad, export goods back here at cheaper costs and cheaper retail, which undercuts more US companies, who turn around and also leave or close up shop.
It doesn't stop until you're in a full economic collapse.
Posted on 7/25/18 at 11:18 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
I suppose that would depend on the actual tariff but tentively I say yes if the alternative is putting tariffs on imports.
So, barriers to entry into a market are good for industries? That is an odd concept.
quote:
Tariffs are punishing your people for whatever someone else is doing.
You can't just look at it from a consumer perspective though. Again, I don't disagree that tariffs hurt consumers. Other country's tariffs hurt our manufacturers though. Arguing otherwise is just silly.
So, back to my original question, how do we stop other countries from negatively effecting out industries? Is achieving zero tariffs across the board possible? If not, what is the next best alternative?
This post was edited on 7/25/18 at 11:19 am
Posted on 7/25/18 at 11:22 am to CivilTiger83
You do realize that Trumps stated goal is the eventual elimination of tariffs? He know what the EU and others know, that they cannot compete with us straight up.
A little knowledge is dangerous.
A little knowledge is dangerous.
Posted on 7/25/18 at 11:27 am to GoCrazyAuburn
quote:
You can't just look at it from a consumer perspective though
quote:
Economists since Adam Smith have understood that free trade is the best policy. Studies show that countries with freer trade have both higher per-capita incomes and faster rates of productivity growth. Economists have also long understood that barriers to trade, while pitched as a way to help domestic workers, always heavily penalize domestic consumers.
quote:
Even if Canada never removes its 270 percent tariffs on our dairy products, Americans would gain if Uncle Sam, regardless of Ottawa’s trade policies, unilaterally removed not only the steel and aluminum tariffs it just slapped on Americans who buy Canadian metal but also ended all tariffs on imports from Canada.
Don’t forget that Canada’s dairy tariffs are paid by Canadian consumers. It defies logic for an American president to punish American consumers in order to prompt Justin Trudeau to be kinder to Canadians. We also know that an increase in imports from Canada will expand our exports to our northern neighbor
.
quote:
By contrast, protectionist policies like those supported by the Trump administration may lead to more, not fewer, protectionist policies abroad — tariff hikes that have been historically ineffective.
quote:
Finally, the case for low trade barriers is not simply theoretical. It’s currently on display in several places in the world, including Singapore, the Netherlands and New Zealand. Hong Kong is a case worth highlighting. Thanks to its history of free trade under British rule and current special status in China, it’s widely regarded as one of the least restrictive economies in the world. Among the policies that have fueled its growth is unilateral free trade.
Tariffs are not economically viable and harm the restricting country. Even unilateral free trade is better than restrictive trade
This post was edited on 7/25/18 at 11:30 am
Posted on 7/25/18 at 11:29 am to GoCrazyAuburn
quote:
You can't just look at it from a consumer perspective though.
I keep hearing this argument and it still doesn’t make sense. The producer side of the equation isn’t any better. The cost of raw materials goes up for producers here. The cost of unfinished parts goes up. Retaliatory tariffs go up so US producers in a completely unrelated industry might get hit with those (car tariffs met with beef retaliatory tariffs for instance) and their exports go down.
This post was edited on 7/25/18 at 11:30 am
Posted on 7/25/18 at 11:30 am to dewster
quote:I see you're using the Obamacare advocate's logic here. "No alternative to our crappy healthcare law? Thought so."
So no alternative tactics?
Thought so.
This post was edited on 7/25/18 at 11:31 am
Posted on 7/25/18 at 11:35 am to GoCrazyAuburn
I would be.
Just think what American industry could do if every time they bought inputs they could buy the lowest cost ones? Just think what that added saving to consumers would do for our economy?
Just think what American industry could do if every time they bought inputs they could buy the lowest cost ones? Just think what that added saving to consumers would do for our economy?
Posted on 7/25/18 at 11:36 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
You're totally ignoring opportunity costs.
I’d love for Beef and the other mouth breathing Trumpkins to do a SWOT Analysis on the tariffs. Under S and O there would be 50 things, while W would only be “Too Much Winning” and T would be “Liberals Could Run Out of Tears”.
This post was edited on 7/25/18 at 11:41 am
Posted on 7/25/18 at 11:38 am to OMLandshark
quote:
I’d love for Beef and the other mouth breathing Trumpkins to do a SWOT Analysis on the tariffs. Under S and O there would be 50 things, while W would only be “Too Much Winning” and T would be “Liberals Could Rub Out of Tears”.
Sounds about right...
Tariffs promote inefficiency the same way welfare promotes complacency.
Posted on 7/25/18 at 11:39 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Tariffs are not economically viable and harm the restricting country.
I've yet to argue any differently. I've also yet to argue I agree with the Trump tariffs. I"ve simply asked for an alternative and through about 6-7 posts now, I've yet to get one answer. I've gotten quite a few answers that other countries having high tariffs on our goods is good for us. Which, goes against a lot of economic principles.
quote:
Even unilateral free trade is better than restrictive trade
So, in your opinion, if our industry has a higher entry barrier into the markets of every competitor than every competitor has into their market, that is better for that industry than having equitable entry barriers?
The article you posted isn't really arguing the point I am. I've already said multiple times I am for free trade and that is ideal. I don't necessarily agree in tariffs on a certain good to lower the tariffs on an unrelated good. So, your link really doesn't even touch the questions I am asking.
So again, I'll ask this for the fourth time now. Do other countries having significantly higher tariffs on our goods hurt our industries? If yes, how do we change that?
This post was edited on 7/25/18 at 11:43 am
Posted on 7/25/18 at 11:41 am to DavidTheGnome
quote:
I keep hearing this argument and it still doesn’t make sense.
What do you not understand? Other countries having high tariffs on our goods hurts our manufacturers. How is that hard to grasp?
Posted on 7/25/18 at 11:42 am to GoCrazyAuburn
quote:
So, in your opinion, if our industry has a higher entry barrier into the markets of every competitor than every competitor has into their market, that is better for that industry than having equitable entry barriers?
It's better for our economy. Selective protectionism breeds ineffeciency
Posted on 7/25/18 at 11:43 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
It's better for our economy. Selective protectionism breeds ineffeciency
It is better for our economy if less of our goods are imported by other countries because they cost more? You're going to have to explain this one to me.
This post was edited on 7/25/18 at 11:44 am
Posted on 7/25/18 at 11:44 am to GoCrazyAuburn
quote:
Do other countries having significantly higher tariffs on our goods hurt our industries? If yes, how do we change that?
It can harm select industries, but it will not hurt the economy. It's probable those industries are inefficient
Again, us consumers are paying fipor those tariffs directly and indirectly.
Posted on 7/25/18 at 11:47 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
It can harm select industries, but it will not hurt the economy. It's probable those industries are inefficient
How can our industries being disadvantaged not hurt our economy?
quote:
Again, us consumers are paying fipor those tariffs directly and indirectly.
Again, I've yet to argue I'm in favor of us increasing our tariffs. Why you keep trying to bring that into my question I don't know.
You have tried really hard to not say other country's tariffs hurt our industries, but have finally somewhat admitted to it. Trump is trying to help our industries. You disagree with his method of doing it. Awesome. Care to give an alternative? I've asked for one many times and have yet to get one.
This post was edited on 7/25/18 at 11:52 am
Posted on 7/25/18 at 11:49 am to GoCrazyAuburn
quote:
It is better for our economy if less of our goods are imported by other countries because they cost more?
No. It's better for our economy because we aren't charging our own consumers for import tariffs and we have access to cheap imports which helps everyone.
Posted on 7/25/18 at 11:50 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
No. It's better for our economy because we aren't charging our own consumers for import tariffs and we have access to cheap imports which helps everyone.
This has nothing to do with other country's tariffs. How hard is this for you to understand?
Posted on 7/25/18 at 11:56 am to GoCrazyAuburn
quote:
How can our industries being disadvantaged not hurt our economy?
Ive never said it didn't. However putting tariffs on imports will result in job losses.
I'm answering the original question about unilateral free trade.
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