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Message
re: Mark Levin on Tariffs
Posted on 7/25/18 at 8:43 am to cahoots
Posted on 7/25/18 at 8:43 am to cahoots
quote:
You still don't get it. When another country imposes tariffs on our products, it hurts them more than us. You can't get cucked with tariffs in that sense. If anything, we should lower our own tariffs and pass the savings on to Americans. Trade deficit? So what? Almost no economists care about trade deficits.
The problem with trending in the current direction is we lose manufacturing capability and your economy moves from a production economy to more of a service economy. An economy that is service oriented is an economy that is unsustainable and more vulnerable to nation security threats. Making stuff of value is the foundation for services and national security.
Trade is not only an economic issue.
There is a balance and unfortunately it is up to our leaders to find that balance. Tariffs are just one of many tools used to strike that balance. Some leaders choose to use then, some don't.
This post was edited on 7/25/18 at 8:44 am
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Posted on 7/25/18 at 8:48 am to MrCarton
quote:
So no misrepresentations then?
Uhh, when you say something is bad, but ignore outside factors that are offsetting any negatives, that is absolutely a misrepresentation of the truth.
Posted on 7/25/18 at 8:57 am to NIH
quote:
If he wins, a permanent swing in the Midwest would be every bit worth the short term suffering
And if he loses?
Like I said, it’s a tremendous gamble.
The biggest problem he has is time. He only has two and half years left in office. Every country we are posing tariffs against knows this. If they can withstand the economic pain, the DNC will use our suffering to oust him in 2020 and then we go back to the status quo or worse.
This is a path to losing 2020 if he’s not careful.
Posted on 7/25/18 at 9:02 am to NikolaiJakov
quote:
BINGO. It's all about leverage in the short-term to get the results we want (low or zero tariffs) in the long-term.
Yep. They play their ace card, trying to hurt our farmers, and Trump goes on national TV and let's China know we are helping our farmers. China now has lost their negotiating power and knows qe are dug in for a long battle.
It's been know since the start, it will hurt their economy must faster and way worse than ours. So if their plan was to see who blinks first, it wont end well.
Posted on 7/25/18 at 9:10 am to GeeOH
quote:
Yep. They play their ace card, trying to hurt our farmers, and Trump goes on national TV and let's China know we are helping our farmers. China now has lost their negotiating power and knows qe are dug in for a long battle.
If I'm not mistaken, the ag assistance that Trump is using is capped at $30 billion. We're $12 billion in right now. And we're threatening to impose tariffs on even more Chinese goods. What happens when they hit back again?
Risk is an understatement here. Trump is gambling big time.
Posted on 7/25/18 at 9:10 am to Antonio Moss
quote:
And if he loses?
Like I said, it’s a tremendous gamble.
The biggest problem he has is time. He only has two and half years left in office. Every country we are posing tariffs against knows this. If they can withstand the economic pain, the DNC will use our suffering to oust him in 2020 and then we go back to the status quo or worse.
This is a path to losing 2020 if he’s not careful.
And what happens if these tariffs stay on, and our economy keeps improving?
Why haven’t any of you guys acknowledged that the lower corporate tax rate and elimination of regulations is going to work like a direct offset to these tariffs?
Posted on 7/25/18 at 9:12 am to BeefDawg
quote:
Why haven’t any of you guys acknowledged that the lower corporate tax rate and elimination of regulations is going to work like a direct offset to these tariffs?
Because a lot of the time it doesn't. Why do you think we are giving aid to farmers?
Posted on 7/25/18 at 9:14 am to CivilTiger83
Posted on 7/25/18 at 9:16 am to BeefDawg
quote:
Why haven’t any of you guys acknowledged that the lower corporate tax rate and elimination of regulations is going to work like a direct offset to these tariffs?
If so you wouldn't have to bail out industry negatively affected by tariff, would you?
Posted on 7/25/18 at 9:16 am to BeefDawg
quote:
Why haven’t any of you guys acknowledged that the lower corporate tax rate and elimination of regulations is going to work like a direct offset to these tariffs?
I gladly acknowledge the positive effect deregulation and tax cuts have had. They are Trump’s greatest accomplishments thus far.
But that doesn’t mean we should engage in poor economic policy simple because we’ve engaged in positive economic policy.
Like I said, it’s just an enormous gamble. If he pulls this off and other countries begin removing their trade barriers, then I will gladly give him all the credit. frick, if that happens, start carving his face into Rushmore.
Posted on 7/25/18 at 9:17 am to Antonio Moss
IB you are conflating several of Milton's points into one egregious simplification.
First off, you are only focusing on his consumer impact discussions. Completely ignoring other aspects of an economy and country. When it comes to discussing these specific economic theories in the economic community it is given you are only talking about one specific side and impact.
Second, you are ONLY considering the scenario where no tariff existed before. Milton Friedman SPECIFICALLY states that the answer to tariffs is a retaliation of tariffs.
Third, you are relying on the more imports vs exports equals higher quality of life as an absolute. Milton himself has admitted it has upper and lower limits.
There is no one in the world who thinks the US will become an export economy, just restore a healthier economic balance between whats best for the consumer and whats best for industry/economy/state.
First off, you are only focusing on his consumer impact discussions. Completely ignoring other aspects of an economy and country. When it comes to discussing these specific economic theories in the economic community it is given you are only talking about one specific side and impact.
Second, you are ONLY considering the scenario where no tariff existed before. Milton Friedman SPECIFICALLY states that the answer to tariffs is a retaliation of tariffs.
Third, you are relying on the more imports vs exports equals higher quality of life as an absolute. Milton himself has admitted it has upper and lower limits.
There is no one in the world who thinks the US will become an export economy, just restore a healthier economic balance between whats best for the consumer and whats best for industry/economy/state.
Posted on 7/25/18 at 9:17 am to TBoy
quote:
If the American right wing wants totally unrestrained and unregulated trade, then the slave wage countries will drive us to slave wages to compete. The pollution excess countries will bring back smog and polluted groundwater here to compete. Without considering the actual consequences, the average Trumpster advocates a competition where everyone will be forced to live on Chinese wages and wear masks to breathe like the Chinese. Because let’s be honest. A country that allows businesses to pay workers pennies a day can do anything cheaper than a country which prioritizes at least a minimum level of fair wage.
How can the left, who demands a living wage, not be on board with imposing tariffs on countries with poor records on labor conditions?
The left is seemingly OK with taxing carbon, but not labor abuse?
Posted on 7/25/18 at 9:21 am to BeefDawg
quote:
Uhh, when you say something is bad, but ignore outside factors that are offsetting any negatives
There's nothing to back up your assertion. The tax cuts will not offset the negative affects of tariffs.
The tax cuts are awesome, but companies aren't hoarding those savings to make up for the negative affects of tariffs
Posted on 7/25/18 at 9:22 am to JayDeerTay84
quote:
How can the left, who demands a living wage, not be on board with imposing tariffs on countries with poor records on labor conditions?
The left is seemingly OK with taxing carbon, but not labor abuse?
If this were Obamas doing, the left would love it and the right would hate it.
Posted on 7/25/18 at 9:23 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
There's nothing to back up your assertion. The tax cuts will not offset the negative affects of tariffs.
The tax cuts are awesome, but companies aren't hoarding those savings to make up for the negative affects of tariffs
Exactly. If Trump came out tomorrow against the tarriffs, they’d turn on a dime with their opinion. There’s no sense in arguing with them since they refuse to think anything through. Just listen to the Orange God King, and everything will be ok. Thinking is a dangerous pastime for them.
Posted on 7/25/18 at 9:23 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
The tax cuts are awesome, but companies aren't hoarding those savings to make up for the negative affects of tariffs
Exactly, and even if they were, how would they know how much to squirrel away? And would it even be a tax cut? It would be a tax swap.
Posted on 7/25/18 at 9:25 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
There's nothing to back up your assertion. The tax cuts will not offset the negative affects of tariffs.
How can you possibly know that if we aren’t clear on what will be negotiated between the US and EU or US and China and when those agreements are finalized?
And are you considering the negative impacts of tarriffs placed on American products in other countries for decades? Doing nothing here comes with a costs to our manufacturing competitiveness.
I think we need a firm agreement from some of these countries that they aren’t going to jack up tarriffs as American innovation and productivity increase in the future.
This post was edited on 7/25/18 at 9:27 am
Posted on 7/25/18 at 9:25 am to OMLandshark
quote:
If Trump came out tomorrow against the tarriffs, they’d turn on a dime with their opinion.
Bingo. It's simply a case of losing all judgement to support a personality. "Living Color" wrote a song about this..
Posted on 7/25/18 at 9:27 am to MrCarton
quote:
It would be a tax swap.
Correct.
The idea for tax cuts would be for companies to put that into capital expenditures or wage hikes. If the tariffs negate those things, it's a failure
Posted on 7/25/18 at 9:27 am to cahoots
quote:
Because a lot of the time it doesn't. Why do you think we are giving aid to farmers?
Because we haven’t even had a full year (barely 7 months) since the new tax rates kicked in.
Most farmers work off leverage (loans from banks to manage cash flow), and they’re still paying off business costs from prior years.
Acting like they should have already realized their growth from paying less taxes and the burdens of costly regulations being eliminated after just 7 months since it all kicked in is just absurd.
You have to be either a moron or intellectually dishonest to act like it works like that.
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