re: Man dead after refusing to show police ID

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No one should ever be treated like that for failing to follow the order of an officer, unless that person has committed a serious crime.

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All I see in that photo is the police using superior physical force to subdue the man.

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The police report states a witness said she saw a fight outside the movie theater between family members. When officers arrived, they said Nair was walking away from Luis and their daughter and refused to stop on their commands.

The officer said she eventually did stop and told him them that she hit her daughter in the face because she "had lied to her and called her dirty names and was being deceitful"

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Officers had asked Luis what was happening and Luis responded by saying it was "none of his business" and they were dealing with a "family matter". He eventually told police that his wife had hit their daughter and officers asked him for his identification.

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The actual suspect told police what happened as did the innocent man.

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Those quotes show that the police did separate everyone and were attempting to determine what actually occurred and who was the abuser but at first the father arrogantly told the police that it was "none of your business".

After he finally told the police the mother was the person who hit her daughter all the police did was ask him for some ID because they didn't know yet that the other people who were being questioned separately at the same time said the same thing about what actually happened and so they still had a reasonable suspicion that he could be lying and was the abuser.

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According to the report, Luis refused, crossed his arms, and walked away. One of the officers said he believed Luis was taking an aggressive stance with another officer and tried to get around the officer several times. The officer said he believed Luis was trying to "go after Nair".

Officers asked Luis for identification again and that's when officers say he took a fighting stance with them. The officers wrote they were trying to place him in investigative detention until they could find his identification and determine is involvement in the domestic assault they were investigating.

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Looks like the police fricked it up from the start, didn't know what to do and went after the man. At the point they are roughing him up, they had been told what had actually happened, by the person who actually did it. Looks like the guy was guilty of crossing his arms (aggressive stance I guess) and walking away.

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Are you kidding?

It looks like the police did exactly what they should have done to detain someone who is reasonably suspected of domestic abuse who refused to identify himself then walked away from the police.

The wife was being questioned separately at the same time and the police who were questioning the father didn't know what the wife was saying.

Don't forget all this is happening very quickly and the police have to make snap judgements based on the little they know about what happened.

Based on this new information, there is no doubt that my assumptions about why the police acted as they did were absolutely correct.

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subdue the man.

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An innocent man.

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Based on this new information, there is no doubt that my assumptions about why the police acted as they did were absolutely correct.

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We view the force government should use over innocent people in very different ways.

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subdue the man.

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An innocent man.

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The police had no idea of that at the time.

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We view the force government should use over innocent people in very different ways.

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What happened to your "innocent until being proved guilty in a court of law"?

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So they compassionately murdered him.

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Murder is the crime of deliberately killing a person.

The police didn't deliberately kill him. They only accidently killed him while trying to subdue him.

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So they compassionately murdered him.


Murder is the crime of deliberately killing a person.

The police didn't deliberately kill him. They only accidently killed him while trying to subdue him.

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Oh, O.K. I'm sure he feels better about being killed rather than murdered.

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You sound like a cop

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Well, you sound like an a-hole because I'm just trying to be reasonable and not accuse the police of deliberately wanting to murder the guy until I know all of the facts.

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what difference does it make whether or not they show I.D.?
If the guy committed a crime, you haul his arse to jail. If he didn't, you let him go. Producing ID has no bearing on either.

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The police have a right to know who they are confronting. If it turns out to be a murderer or some other violent criminal wanted by the police then they have the legal authority to arrest the person even if it turns out they are innocent of this particular crime.

It also means the police should definitely subdue the person and handcuff them for their own protection

The video leaves many questions unanswered.

However, it appears that the officer in the right foreground , with the light-colored khaki pants, is aggressively and needlessly pushing the man's head/face into the pavement at a point where he has been pretty well subdued. Granted, things are not always as they appear. It's possible he is not exerting any force or pressure on the head, but it sure looks like he is based upon the man's head itself. The other four officers do not appear overly aggressive during the video (though we have no idea at all what role each officer played prior to the beginning point of this video clip, other than that one of the game wardens made first contact). While the 5 officers are discussed throughout this thread as a group, I could easily see, depending on the existence of additional video, that particular officer being singled out for more serious charges at some point. If you watch the video carefully, you can see the "oh, shite" look on his face (as opposed to the others) when he realizes the man is in serious trouble.

Just an observation.

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I'm just trying to be reasonable

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Is it reasonable to kill someone for not showing ID?

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I've already said what happened was a tragedy but it wasn't the police officers' fault he was accidently killed.

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You've said that. But you have not a scintilla of evidence to establish it as fact or not. That is the problem.

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They did exactly what they should do under the circumstances.

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You have no idea whatsoever whether they did or not. The outcome, and the video, imply they didn't. Does that limited evidence prove police negligence or worse? No it doesn't.

But, your varied bizarre protestations notwithstanding, the video and outcome sure as hell are not exculpatory.

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Is it reasonable to kill someone for not showing ID?

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Is it reasonable for you to keep insinuating that the police deliberately killed this person for not showing an ID?

I'll answer the question.

No.