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re: Man dead after refusing to show police ID
Posted on 2/27/14 at 9:31 pm to Sevendust912
Posted on 2/27/14 at 9:31 pm to Sevendust912
quote:
I would like to add that Mr. Rodriguez was unarmed. Other than that, this is a great post.
I assume you mean to say he wasn't using a weapon in a threatening manner. Not to nit pick what you said, but everyone is armed to some degree and that is in no way an excuse to use excessive or preemptive force. I hope that we don't find it acceptable to pound someone into oblivion because they have the capability of defending themselves. If anything, the possibility that someone could be armed should be a cue to police officers to use the least amount of force possible to do their jobs, which includes not putting citizens in untenable situations for which there are very few viable solutions.
1
Posted on 2/27/14 at 9:36 pm to Scruffy
quote:
EMTs do not have the authority to pronounce someone "dead".
pronounce no, but they can tell if he had vital signs. like if he was breathing or had a pulse. they could also probably testify to what he did to treat him.
Posted on 2/27/14 at 9:37 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
There are a couple of facts we know:
(1) The police were not there because of Luis Rodriguez. He was innocent.
(2) Luis Rodriguez died as a result of the police being there. He was dead.
its what happens between 1 and 2 that makes a lot of difference.
Posted on 2/27/14 at 9:43 pm to SammyTiger
quote:No sir !
There are a couple of facts we know:
(1) The police were not there because of Luis Rodriguez. He was innocent.
(2) Luis Rodriguez died as a result of the police being there. He was dead.
its what happens between 1 and 2 that makes a lot of difference.
It is what happened after #1 that makes all of the difference.
Posted on 2/27/14 at 9:45 pm to SammyTiger
quote:
its what happens between 1 and 2 that makes a lot of difference.
Of course, but the responsibility for the result falls to the police. They are literally paid to handle situations like this by the least invasive means possible. The problem is that most police departments have militarized their approach to questioning, detention, and arrest. In this particular case, they walked into a relatively simple and non-violent scenario which would have likely not resulted in a death, and literally killed a man. You cannot tell me that can be construed as professional. No cop can look you in the eye and say that kind of performance meets the expectations of the tax paying public. Honestly, I feel like cops find buttons to push just so they can escalate the situation and get physical and violent. I have personally experienced it and have seen it numerous times. It is as though conflict resolution through non-violent means is construed as a weakness in their community.
Posted on 2/27/14 at 9:46 pm to SammyTiger
I do not understand 2 things.
Why don't you hand over your ID?
Why do cops in these situations not have a guy check the suspects face? Difference in dead face and live face is not tough to determine.
Why don't you hand over your ID?
Why do cops in these situations not have a guy check the suspects face? Difference in dead face and live face is not tough to determine.
Posted on 2/27/14 at 9:49 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
No sir !
It is what happened after #1 that makes all of the difference.
what is between 1 and 2 is after one.
Posted on 2/27/14 at 9:52 pm to MrCarton
quote:
Of course, but the responsibility for the result falls to the police. They are literally paid to handle situations like this by the least invasive means possible. The problem is that most police departments have militarized their approach to questioning, detention, and arrest. In this particular case, they walked into a relatively simple and non-violent scenario which would have likely not resulted in a death, and literally killed a man. You cannot tell me that can be construed as professional. No cop can look you in the eye and say that kind of performance meets the expectations of the tax paying public. Honestly, I feel like cops find buttons to push just so they can escalate the situation and get physical and violent. I have personally experienced it and have seen it numerous times. It is as though conflict resolution through non-violent means is construed as a weakness in their community.
until i know why the guy died i am not going to pass judgement on the situation. There is no doubt there is some fault no the police, but it could range from a freak accident to a complete abuse of police power ranging on murder. But since there is a big gap between those two, i would like to know how the guy died at least before I decide how i feel about this.
Posted on 2/27/14 at 9:52 pm to SammyTiger
quote:
what is between 1 and 2 is after one.
It is irrelevant. There is no justification for police to murder an unarmed civilian
Posted on 2/27/14 at 9:54 pm to LSU alum wannabe
quote:
Why don't you hand over your ID?
Google stop and Identify laws. To my knowledge you are not required to provide A picture ID when on foot, but in at least 14 states you must give some or all of the following info: Name, Address, DOB, and destination. Now, would I hand over my ID? I usually leave it in my vehicle, but If I have it on hand I will hand it over if a simple name and address does not suffice to get the cops off my back. I will absolutely call the department and let them know I do not appreciate being forced to show papers under threat of force. I have yet to be told my a police department that I must provide Drivers license Identification, but I have been told many times by police that they will arrest me if I do not. Police departments don't carry guns, cops do.
Posted on 2/27/14 at 9:55 pm to MrCarton
quote:They've been arguing that this man might have died at that exact moment due to something that wasn't caused by the cops, an argument which is complete BS.
Of course, but the responsibility for the result falls to the police. They are literally paid to handle situations like this by the least invasive means possible. The problem is that most police departments have militarized their approach to questioning, detention, and arrest. In this particular case, they walked into a relatively simple and non-violent scenario which would have likely not resulted in a death, and literally killed a man. You cannot tell me that can be construed as professional. No cop can look you in the eye and say that kind of performance meets the expectations of the tax paying public.
This post was edited on 2/27/14 at 9:59 pm
Posted on 2/27/14 at 9:58 pm to SammyTiger
quote:
until i know why the guy died i am not going to pass judgement on the situation. There is no doubt there is some fault no the police, but it could range from a freak accident to a complete abuse of police power ranging on murder. But since there is a big gap between those two, i would like to know how the guy died at least before I decide how i feel about this.
I understand what you are saying. What I am saying is that the moment the cops were involved they accepted responsibility for what happened next. If they cannot demonstrate that their actions were the least invasive option possible, then I feel there should be criminal proceedings brought forth.
Posted on 2/27/14 at 9:58 pm to SammyTiger
quote:The fault in your argument is that no matter how he died, all of it can be tied back to the actions of the LEOs.
until i know why the guy died i am not going to pass judgement on the situation. There is no doubt there is some fault no the police, but it could range from a freak accident to a complete abuse of police power ranging on murder. But since there is a big gap between those two, i would like to know how the guy died at least before I decide how i feel about this.
Had they handled it differently, he would not have died at that moment in time.
Posted on 2/27/14 at 9:59 pm to Scruffy
quote:
They've been arguing that this man might have died at that exact moment due to something that wasn't caused by the cops, an argument which is complete BS.
Yep. They put hands on him, and thereby took responsibility for the result.
Posted on 2/27/14 at 10:04 pm to SammyTiger
quote:
its what happens between 1 and 2 that makes a lot of difference.
This is starting to sound like "cops don't kill people, asphyxiation kills people"
I also want to know what the big deal is about a mother slapping her 17 year old daughter for being disrespectful. That's not the "Child beating parent" that seems to be permeating some of these posts. So realy, it's a crime for a parent to slap their 17 yo? wtf?
Posted on 2/27/14 at 10:09 pm to WildTchoupitoulas
quote:
I also want to know what the big deal is about a mother slapping her 17 year old daughter for being disrespectful. That's not the "Child beating parent" that seems to be permeating some of these posts. So realy, it's a crime for a parent to slap their 17 yo? wtf?
Well now we will never know, because the cops were too busy killing the person not involved to get the facts straight.
Posted on 2/27/14 at 10:15 pm to MrCarton
Cops are a tool of the oppressors.
Posted on 2/28/14 at 12:15 am to volforever
14 states have laws that you must tell the police your destination?
In America?
Source?
In America?
Source?
Posted on 2/28/14 at 12:22 am to volforever
I think that it's fricking awesome that this thread has gone on for nearly thirty pages.
I am glad to see that so many are waking up to the undercurrent of frustration that is so prevelant in our nation.
The next step is for the media to pick up the story.
I live in Oklahoma and am yet to see this story reported. Once it gets the rounds, hopefully more will awaken to the reality that is the overreach of our nations policing forces.
I am glad to see that so many are waking up to the undercurrent of frustration that is so prevelant in our nation.
The next step is for the media to pick up the story.
I live in Oklahoma and am yet to see this story reported. Once it gets the rounds, hopefully more will awaken to the reality that is the overreach of our nations policing forces.
Posted on 2/28/14 at 12:26 am to SammyTiger
quote:
its what happens between 1 and 2 that makes a lot of difference.
I imagine several highly emotional people were doing what emotional people do in family drama. The police should have the training necessary to deal with emotional family drama without it resulting in the death of an innocent man.
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