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re: Liberals, get in here and tell us how Chairman Joe bombing Syria is different
Posted on 2/26/21 at 1:31 pm to Mickey Goldmill
Posted on 2/26/21 at 1:31 pm to Mickey Goldmill
quote:
Nope. We need to get out of the Middle East completely. Said it during Trump and I'll say it now during Biden.
As in troop draw downs?
FWIW - I agree fully.
0
Posted on 2/26/21 at 1:34 pm to thebigmuffaletta
Dems cranking up. More kick backs
Posted on 2/26/21 at 1:43 pm to Mickey Goldmill
quote:
Nope. We need to get out of the Middle East completely. Said it during Trump and I'll say it now during Biden.
Good for you Mickey.
Posted on 2/26/21 at 2:16 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
Iran hasn't stopped anything. They still have proxies, are still positioned all over the ME, and are comfortable with the current proxy war situation. That you don't realize the maximum pressure campaign was a failure is indicative that you don't know what you are talking about.
I want to make clear that I hold no illusions about either ISIS or their Iranian counterparts, Hezbelloh. These are all bad actors on a bad stage. But the CIA has funded & trained factions within ISIS while attempting to import the phony “Arab Spring” uprisings against the Assad regime in Syria. The entire scenario begs a larger question: who the hell elected the United States as powered armored Global-cop to pick winners or losers in these sectarian conflicts?
Posted on 2/26/21 at 2:21 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
That he bungled the handling of that, when he had a chance to gain real concessions if he was a skillful diplomat, dampens Trump's entire FP effort.
I’ve long argued that there is no coherent Middle Eastern foreign policy in Washington beyond creating instability and chaos across the entire region. There are ever-competing factions in the White House, the Pentagon, the intelligence agencies and Foggy Bottom that oppose each other in all things and separately conduct contradictory and inconsistent policies in pursuit of their goals.
The climax of this situation was reached when the Obama White House authorized the CIA to help organize and arm ISIS to ethnically cleanse Iraq of Shiites; wildly successful in that task, the molt of ISIS moved to Syria— still under CIA sponsorship — to fight rebel forces armed by the Pentagon. Whether you acknowledge it or not, Trump wisely put an end to that insanity.
Now, putting all that aside, the fatal flaw in this entire scenario — which comes from all sides — is the myth that some level of Middle Eastern peace can be achieved with the right set of diplomatic policies in place from Washington. It is pure madness to think that we should be picking winners and losers in these ancient sectarian struggles.
How does choosing sides in these medieval sectarian religious disputes protect our liberties? It's insanity repeated ad infinitum. We need to get the hell out of the sand-pit of vipers once and forever. To hell with them all.
Posted on 2/26/21 at 2:22 pm to Toomer Deplorable
I'm certainly not accusing you of anything, and certainly, it does beg that question. My desire is to ensure no more Americans die in pointless wars overseas. Normalizing relations with Iran will do more for regime change than the last 30 years of sanctions. That no one wants to do that is curious too.
Posted on 2/26/21 at 2:24 pm to Toomer Deplorable
I will say what needs to be said: if we're going to pick sides in the Middle East, it should be with the Shia faction of Iran and Assad over the Gulf States and Israel. I'd rather deal with Persians and Alawites than radical Sunni Arabs and Zionist Jews. There's a reason many Lebanese and Syrian Christians and Druze support Hezbollah and Assad. They know the alternative is genocide at the hands of the Sunni fundamentalists or Likud nationalists.
Posted on 2/26/21 at 2:24 pm to Toomer Deplorable
We agree in that regard. What I don't want is the US to fight for the interests of Israel and the KSA. If they are afraid of Iran, then they should negotiate with them directly. The US should have no role, outside of banal diplomatic statements.
Posted on 2/26/21 at 2:26 pm to SCLibertarian
quote:
I will say what needs to be said: if we're going to pick sides in the Middle East, it should be with the Shia faction of Iran and Assad over the Gulf States and Israel. I'd rather deal with Persians and Alawites than radical Sunni Arabs and Zionist Jews. There's a reason many Lebanese and Syrian Christians and Druze support Hezbollah and Assad. They know the alternative is genocide at the hands of the Sunni fundamentalists or Likud nationalists.
That mere fact drives people to Iranian proxies, and seems to be opaque to the FP establishment. Who knew that people would seek out protection if you insist they will be genocided, even if that protection itself is "evil," as the Iranians are portrayed.
Posted on 2/27/21 at 7:38 am to crazy4lsu
quote:
quote:
1. That didnt happen if you define Neo-Con orthodoxy as keeping a simmering war going.
You don't seem to know the Neo-Con orthodoxy with regard to Iran then.
I just defined it as I find it, You can define it as you wish. The proxy actions of the Persians had been going on for many years before 2016
quote:
Iran knew he would obliterate their arse, he had proven that, and it all served as a detent that they couldn't do anything at all about...
Iran hasn't stopped anything. They still have proxies, are still positioned all over the ME, and are comfortable with the current proxy war situation. That you don't realize the maximum pressure campaign was a failure is indicative that you don't know what you are talking about.
The term I used was "detent" meaning checked into not expanding or further adventuring by use of their proxies. This was done by Trump vaporizing Solemani and threatening to, again, obliterating their asses. Their actions did not exceed pre-2016, BECAUSE OF Trump.
He kept a detent with the 2015-16 status quo and NOTHING escalated except in the back seat of Solemani's car
quote:
Overt actions between the USG and the Syrian government started under Trump. That is a massive escalation.
Uh, Obamas "red line" dance and OBAMA'S proxies creating actions in Syria was ongoing. Trump only made the statement/action that Russia would not be adventuring against American interests in Syria. detent to pre-2016 achieved
I'm completely anti-war, and always have been. If you don't understand how the Neo-Con orthodoxy with regard to will lead to overt conflict, as it did from the summer of 2019 to the beginning of the pandemic, then I don't know what to tell you.
We definitely see the meaning of Neo-Con orthodoxy differently. I see it is a slow rolling involvement of as many parties as the CIA/IC can manage and keep those hostilities manageable but ongoing.
I just do not see that the period from 2016 through 2020 to have ever gone beyond the pre-2016 conditions, especially to Bush era trickery, which is the definitive "Neo-Con" origin.
Every president since Bush41 had warring to deal with...
until Trump who kept everything in check and status quo. Not only that - he also did not start NEW Neo-Con action - and in several ways was actually a peaceMAKER in Korea, Israel and other ME areas.
and now that a new communist-dem admin is in place we got bombing and escalation faster than the gibmedats got their $2000 check.
just the way Neo-Cons LOVE IT - and very much UNLIKE the way of President Trump
This post was edited on 2/27/21 at 8:14 am
Posted on 2/27/21 at 7:42 am to Tmcgin
quote:
I'm a real republican btw.
Doesn't mean you're a conservative....
Posted on 2/27/21 at 7:48 am to crazy4lsu
quote:
The US and Iran were preparing for war before the pandemic
No they weren't
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