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re: Let's talk about some marital privilege and class signaling
Posted on 6/6/17 at 4:14 pm to Zach
Posted on 6/6/17 at 4:14 pm to Zach
quote:
On one hand I have little sympathy. Black women are obese and extremely loud. OTOH, I've known thin, quiet, intelligent black women who didn't marry because of the field they have to work with. As they explained to me:
"If you're looking for a black male who has not been in jail, has a college degree, has no drug issues, and doesn't prefer white women... then you're dealing with a very small group."
I have pretty much zero sympathy for adults who face hardship due to their decisions. I will say that I feel really bad for intelligent, responsible black folks though. More than any other group, they have the biggest uphill battle.
1
Posted on 6/6/17 at 4:16 pm to Zach
quote:
OTOH, I've known thin, quiet, intelligent black women who didn't marry because of the field they have to work with.
oh in terms of our society, black women get the short end of the stick all around
they're seen as the ugliest subset of women (See: OK Cupid data)
they have the least prospects within their own race, especially outside of the upper class. it gets exponentially worse as we go down
many are raised in an absolutely toxic culture
quote:
"If you're looking for a black male who has not been in jail, has a college degree, has no drug issues, and doesn't prefer white women... then you're dealing with a very small group."
there was a story a few years ago out of ATL about this
there was a culture of boyfriend sharing, b/c there are so few suitable black men to date (you forgot to add in HIV/AIDS)
Posted on 6/6/17 at 4:17 pm to chalmetteowl
quote:
because you're talking about people and not science experiments
and people respond to criticism and consequences
quote:
In a world where females are gaining income and power, you won't win points with them by suggesting we go back to 1950s norms where they submit to a often less high value man just for the sake of being married
re-read OP
THESE WOMEN ARE GETTING MARRIED
it's the poor women who don't have any real income or power who aren't, and who are having kids they doom to poverty in the process
Posted on 6/6/17 at 4:17 pm to Hawkeye95
quote:
The problem is the marketing of privilege by the left.
they can't close Pandora's Box, at this point
Posted on 6/6/17 at 4:18 pm to SlowFlowPro
They can definitely improve the marketing of privilege, now will they. Who knows?
Posted on 6/6/17 at 4:18 pm to Antonio Moss
quote:
I will say that I feel really bad for intelligent, responsible black folks though. More than any other group, they have the biggest uphill battle.
black, educated women have the literal shite end of the stick
Posted on 6/6/17 at 4:18 pm to chalmetteowl
quote:
because you're talking about people and not science experiments
Results are results. Just because humans are being studied doesn't mean they are not devastating consequences for certain behaviors.
quote:
In a world where females are gaining income and power, you won't win points with them by suggesting we go back to 1950s norms where they submit to a often less high value man just for the sake of being married
It's actually the opposite. The article clearly references the education level of both parents. And, regardless of education levels, we know there are macrolevel negative consequences for childbirth outside of marriage. Women's advancement in society doesn't change this fact; ignoring it isn't going to make it go away.
Posted on 6/6/17 at 4:19 pm to Hawkeye95
quote:
They can definitely improve the marketing of privilege,
i don't know if they can within the paradigm of privilege and marginalization they have based their entire ideology on
Posted on 6/6/17 at 4:19 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
i mean i somewhat get it. the progs of any intelligence who do this know they are much more advanced than their "lessers" they're discussing. they feel bad for "being mean" to them, because the lower class life is so shitty. also i believe there is a ton of elitism, i.e., "they will never be able to comprehend these concepts on their own" it's this weird merging of guilt and elitism without the strength to state reality
I don't see this as being necessarily elitist. I see it as being intellectually modest.
The implicit assumption in social science research is that social phenomena like marriage are are at least partially rational acts. Sociologists that study marriage or poverty are social scientists. They come at these issues with hypotheses and try to test them as best they can. It doesn't help one understanding a phenomenon by pre-judging it.
Posted on 6/6/17 at 4:21 pm to Hawkeye95
quote:
They can definitely improve the marketing of privilege, now will they. Who knows?
They can start by stopping falsely labeling it "privilege."
Posted on 6/6/17 at 4:22 pm to Antonio Moss
quote:
They can start by stopping falsely labeling it "privilege."
yeah
it's one thing when it's an inherent quality (ie, white or male privilege) that may have some validity (at least historically)
it's a completely different thing when we're talking about decisions and behaviors
Posted on 6/6/17 at 4:23 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
i don't know if they can within the paradigm of privilege and marginalization they have based their entire ideology on
I think there are some of the left that overzealous of privilege, and try to use it as a stick in conversations. They are unlikely to change.
But it could be re-marketed pretty easily. Now I don't think it will be, but it could and should be.
It is a very simple concept, that is very true. I mean, who really thinks that a poor black male kid living with non-nuclear family has the same opportunity as that of an upper-class white kid?
Posted on 6/6/17 at 4:24 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
it's a completely different thing when we're talking about decisions and behaviors
nonsense! I can't control my parent's decisions, I am just the by-product of them.
Posted on 6/6/17 at 4:28 pm to Hawkeye95
quote:
I mean, who really thinks that a poor black male kid living with non-nuclear family has the same opportunity as that of an upper-class white kid?
how about we label the negative behaviors that lead to negative outcomes as disadvantages?
because that would (a) be considered mean/cruel and (b) lead to a discussion about segregating class and behaviors that progs avoid
that's why they attack the path that leads to advantage and that's why this PR shift can't work. you cannot promote marginalization and the victim complex of the modern progressive ideology while labeling the behaviors that lead to this status as negative. in terms of ideology it's an attack within itself
Posted on 6/6/17 at 4:29 pm to Hawkeye95
quote:
I can't control my parent's decisions, I am just the by-product of them.
the issue is defending your parents' decisions as good (when they're terrible) and telling you that repeating this behavioral pattern is OK
Posted on 6/6/17 at 4:33 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:I'm sorry are you saying there's a stigma against married people?
where it's clear that we know which avenue is superior and for whatever reason, we create a negative connotation around the behavior while defending those who reject the more optimal set of decisions.
Posted on 6/6/17 at 4:35 pm to Iosh
quote:
I'm sorry are you saying there's a stigma against married people?
for many progs, yes (See this thread for one example. i believe my quoted response is early on page 2)
but my comment was about the use of privilege (or similar terminologies), which has negative connotation
This post was edited on 6/6/17 at 4:36 pm
Posted on 6/6/17 at 4:36 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
The cause of their concern: A growing gap in marriage is helping to drive economic inequality in the U.S.
Add in the fact that college educated people are generally self-segregating to marry other college educated people and you're accelerating the class divide at warp speed. Townies need not apply.
Posted on 6/6/17 at 4:37 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:Okay so this is another thread where you beat the shite out of a straw man labeled PROG. Carry on.
for many progs
Posted on 6/6/17 at 4:37 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
the issue is defending your parents' decisions as good (when they're terrible) and telling you that repeating this behavioral pattern is OK
And that the only reason you're in your position and the upper class is in their's is because of factors completely out of either of your control.
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