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Started By
Message
1
Posted on 10/18/14 at 10:27 am to ballscaster
quote:No.
It is a form of lying.
It's a form of understanding the language.
Words mean something.
In this instance there is no denial at all.
The equation is about state acknowledgement.
Once we can come to terms with that fact, we can have a reasonable discussion. I am not opposed to gay couples having any and all legal rights afforded anyone else, in any regard. In fact I would stand beside you and fight for those rights. I am opposed to either side misrepresenting an argument.
My concern is and, until proven otherwise, will be the "end-game". Is the end-game attainment of gay marriage and equal rights? If so I'm all in.
. . . or is the end-game a politically correct solution far exceeding attainment of equal rights? Unfortunately, that is more likely than not.
I've brought up many times the gay-activist anti-church, anti-firstamendment point of view. I've noted on this board, personal conversations I've had amongst such activists in which gay marriage was described as a solid step toward forcing church policy.
Folks here say, "Nah, attacking churches is not going to happen. Gay's have no interest in doing that." "Attempts at forcing church behavior will never occur," . . . . . . . and then we have Houston's Mayor doing exactly that.
The conversation is reasonable, as long as it is honest.
Posted on 10/18/14 at 10:37 am to asurob1
You know asurob1, if there is no higher authority than man, and all men are of equal value, then all morals have the same value no matter what they are. We are just biological units that live and die based on what we chose to believe about things. Therefore, if my morals should tell me that it is ok to take what I want and abuse who I will in a Hitleresque way, then who is to say it's right or wrong to do so? If all morals are of the same value, then let he who can assert himself as he so chooses. In this world, there is no right or wrong, only survivors. As in the animal kingdom where each animal is it's own moral authority, it's survival of the fittest.
On the other hand, if there is a Higher Authority who establishes morality (and some of us choose to believe this), then we all ultimately play by His rules, like it or not. Instead of chaos and anarchy, there is reason and purpose and a destiny beyond this life. Now one could chose to reject this Higher Authority and His rules, but that might not turn out to well for them at the end of the day.
Are we both biological and spiritual beings, or merely just biological?
I prefer to live a life with faith in a higher authority. I have yet to meet any person whose morality was wise enough or good enough to make sense of the human condition.
On the other hand, if there is a Higher Authority who establishes morality (and some of us choose to believe this), then we all ultimately play by His rules, like it or not. Instead of chaos and anarchy, there is reason and purpose and a destiny beyond this life. Now one could chose to reject this Higher Authority and His rules, but that might not turn out to well for them at the end of the day.
Are we both biological and spiritual beings, or merely just biological?
I prefer to live a life with faith in a higher authority. I have yet to meet any person whose morality was wise enough or good enough to make sense of the human condition.
Posted on 10/18/14 at 11:10 am to asurob1
There sure are a lot of so called libertarians in this thread applauding government insertion into marriage.
Statist gonna sate.
Statist gonna sate.
Posted on 10/18/14 at 11:17 am to GumboPot
quote:
applauding government insertion into marriage.
Yea bc this is a new development.
Posted on 10/18/14 at 11:29 am to GumboPot
Perhaps some of these libertarians believe that there is a higher authority than our federal government...
Posted on 10/18/14 at 11:30 am to onmymedicalgrind
quote:
Yea bc this is a new development.
Unfortunately it's not. I've seen this movie before. It doesn't end well.
Posted on 10/18/14 at 11:32 am to Tigerinthewoods
quote:
Perhaps some of these libertarians believe that there is a higher authority than our federal government...
Most in this thread don't though.
Posted on 10/18/14 at 11:34 am to GumboPot
I was unaware that you spoke for them.
Posted on 10/18/14 at 11:36 am to Tigerinthewoods
I don't.
Posted on 10/18/14 at 11:38 am to GumboPot
Is it antithetical to be a libertarian and believe in a Higher Authority?
Do you believe in a Higher authority?
Do you believe in a Higher authority?
Posted on 10/18/14 at 11:52 am to NC_Tigah
quote:
My concern is and, until proven otherwise, will be the "end-game". Is the end-game attainment of gay marriage and equal rights? If so I'm all in.
You can say this with most issues. I'm for cutting taxes, but where will it end? I'm for raising revenue but where will it end? I'm for blocking all Liberian citizens but where will it all end?
With every issue there are those for it and for more and those against it no matter what. And the deciding moderates in the middle.
So where will it end? When it runs out of steam for lack of support.
Posted on 10/18/14 at 12:01 pm to Tigerinthewoods
quote:
Is it antithetical to be a libertarian and believe in a Higher Authority?
Of course not. But it's antithetical to be libertarian and want more government intrusion.
Posted on 10/18/14 at 12:09 pm to Tigerinthewoods
quote:
Do you believe in a Higher authority?
Yes.
Bottom line is a government should not be involved in the religious institution of marriage at any level.
I'm genuinely concerned about where this is leading. I.e., government inserting their believes into church.
Posted on 10/18/14 at 12:22 pm to GumboPot
To much stock is placed on the concept of Libertarianism.
Every libertarian I have ever met is a human being. Every human being I have ever met has had a set of preconceived notions and beliefs that has guided them. Therefore libertarians are guided by preconceived notions and beliefs that dictate what things and how much government should enforce/intrude into their lives.
Individual libertarians don't mind when government gets involved in matters that are important to them.
Every libertarian I have ever met is a human being. Every human being I have ever met has had a set of preconceived notions and beliefs that has guided them. Therefore libertarians are guided by preconceived notions and beliefs that dictate what things and how much government should enforce/intrude into their lives.
Individual libertarians don't mind when government gets involved in matters that are important to them.
Posted on 10/18/14 at 12:30 pm to GumboPot
If you believe in a Higher Authority then at some level you must believe it important to protect and promote His truth. If someone attempts to force you to accept something that is contrary to this truth what are you to do? Just accept it?
I fail my God daily, but I don't just accept my failure as ok. I call it what it is, ask for fogiviness and dust myself off and move on.
I fail my God daily, but I don't just accept my failure as ok. I call it what it is, ask for fogiviness and dust myself off and move on.
Posted on 10/18/14 at 12:43 pm to Tigerinthewoods
quote:
Is it antithetical to be a libertarian and believe in a Higher Authority?
Do you believe in a Higher authority?
I'm tired of this argument being thrown around like it has any merit. Even those who belong to the same religion, and same denomination of that religion, cannot agree upon the same interpretation of how their God wants them to live their lives. So why should we legislate that morality upon everyone, when people in the same church can't even agree on how to practice their faith?
Even if you somehow convinced people that a higher authority was necessary for morality (it is not), nobody will ever agree on which higher authority to follow and how that authority wants us to live.
Posted on 10/18/14 at 12:48 pm to Tigerinthewoods
quote:
I prefer to live a life with faith in a higher authority. I have yet to meet any person whose morality was wise enough or good enough to make sense of the human condition.
What's to make sense of?
We live.
We eat.
We frick.
We breed.
We die.
Seems pretty simple.
How we choose to spend the short time we get is up to us.
You choose to place your time in faith to one of a list of imaginary gods. (And we both know there are many imaginary ones)
I choose to spend mine enjoying life to it's fullest and not trying to live the lie of someone else's morals.
Funny that someone of your faith works hard to impose his views on others (like I don't know keeping gays from being married).
While someone of mine doesn't meddle in other people's lives and just lets people live how they feel they want to live.
Wonder which one of us has a better life.
Posted on 10/18/14 at 12:49 pm to Tigerinthewoods
quote:
Perhaps some of these libertarians believe that there is a higher authority than our federal government...
Yes its called the almighty
dollar
Posted on 10/18/14 at 12:53 pm to RTOTA
quote:
Even if you somehow convinced people that a higher authority was necessary for morality (it is not), nobody will ever agree on which higher authority to follow and how that authority wants us to live.
This exactly.
The God Squad really cannot help but to attempt to meddle in the lives of others.
To impose their will and their version of morality on others.
What they don't understand is things like gay marriage being legalized is a "direct result" of their constant meddling in people's lives.
For 1000s of years religion held its hands around the people's throat and forced them to believe shite that frankly no logical sane person could.
Now people are pushing back and seeing religion for what it actually is.
Gay marriage is simply the first shot.
This post was edited on 10/18/14 at 1:23 pm
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