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re: Islamic behavior based on population size
Posted on 2/17/19 at 4:20 pm to makinskrilla
Posted on 2/17/19 at 4:20 pm to makinskrilla
quote:The Protestant Reformation was intended to cleanse the Church of abuse that had crept in and to take the Faith back to the beginning. Doing so with Islam would bring it in line with Muhammad the war lord.
Islam needs a reform movement
What Islam needs is to be defeated. There is no co-existence with Islam. There is either submission to it or the destruction of it in the long run.
This post was edited on 2/17/19 at 4:25 pm
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Posted on 2/17/19 at 4:34 pm to Tecate
quote:
I'm not defending their beliefs. But it is the same God.
Liberals don't have a monopoly on ignorance.
No... No they don't. From a former Muslims perspective...
quote:
For years I thought it did, but I no longer do. Now I believe that the phrase “Muslims and Christians worship the same God” is only true in a fairly uncontroversial sense: There is one Creator whom Muslims and Christians both attempt to worship. Apart from this banal observation, Muslims and Christians do not worship the same God. I do not condemn those that think they do, but the deeper I delve into the Christian faith, the more I realize that this assertion is not only untrue but also subverts Christian orthodoxy in favor of Islamic assertions.
Let’s start with the obvious: Christians believe Jesus is God, but the Quran is so opposed to this belief that it condemns Jesus worshipers to Hell (5.72). For Christians, Jesus is certainly God, and for Muslims Jesus is certainly not God. How can it be said that Christians and Muslims worship the same God? This fact alone is enough to settle the matter, but at the very least, no one should argue as Volf has that “there isn’t any theological justification” for believing Christians and Muslims worship different Gods. There certainly is, and it is the obvious position when we consider the person of Jesus.
LINK
Posted on 2/17/19 at 4:37 pm to Jake_LaMotta
quote:
Sorry but you are far safer in the UAE and Qatar than in America. Those places have almost zero violent crime and very little crime in general. People that do commit crimes there are dealt with which is why there is such little crime. Novel concept isn’t it?
Well except for that part where speaking against Islam leads to death. Like any totalitarian state the incidence of crime may be low, but that doesn't mean it is safe from tyranny.
Posted on 2/17/19 at 4:38 pm to makinskrilla
quote:
Islam needs a reform movement.
they are NOT reforming 328,000 words devoted to political violence taught by mohammed in the koran, hadiths and sirah aka THE ISLAMIC TRILOGY.
They are taught to do what mohammed did, aka SUNNA.
All the so called muslims who are not violent need to leave that garbage ideology. over 33,000 terror attacks worldwide since 9-11 caused or correlated with that garbage. why would you want to be associated with that? or a pedophile murdering prophet?
LINK
why we are afraid
Posted on 2/17/19 at 4:41 pm to CivilTiger83
So, you don't think Jews and Christians worship the same God?
Posted on 2/17/19 at 4:42 pm to NDonahue
quote:
The concept of God in Islam vs. Christianity are radically different. They are not the same god.
Really the only difference is the concept of the Trinity vs a singular God. Other than that its Identical. A benevolent all knowing all powerful creator, who created Adam, the God of Abraham, bestowed the 10 commandments to Moses.....
Edit: and just to add, it wasn't until the council of Nicea in 325 AD that Jesus was declared to be God, officially by the religious powers that be
This post was edited on 2/17/19 at 4:53 pm
Posted on 2/17/19 at 4:53 pm to Rough1
So other than this very key and foundational theological doctrine where they are radically different, yes they are similar. Also the fact that the Quran says that Allah hates non believers. Doesnt sound like the same god to me. Actually, fundamentally different.
This post was edited on 2/17/19 at 4:57 pm
Posted on 2/17/19 at 4:59 pm to NDonahue
quote:
So other than this very key and foundational theological doctrine where they are radically different, yes they are similar. Also the fact that the Quran says that he hates non believers. Doesnt sound like the same god to me. Actually, fundamentally different.
Now, I'm no expert in the Koran, but from my understanding of the versus where muslims are called to kill the unbelievers where you find them, was after Muhammad and his companions were driven from Mecca, regrouped in Median, and were at war with the polytheistic Meccan's. Now at sime time during this war a truce was signed. The Meccan's broke the truce, and attacked the muslims. It was in this instance of a broken truce, where the believers were called to kill the unbelievers.
Posted on 2/17/19 at 5:03 pm to NDonahue
quote:
Also the fact that the Quran says that he hates non believers.
The Quran says a lot of things, often contradictory, often within the same sura. A piecemeal approach allows people to pick at the ayats as though a buffet, but the consistent affirmation has been to say that Jews and Christians are "People of the Book" along with Zoroastrians. They aren't correct about what they believe, according to the Quran, but they also are ritually pure.
Posted on 2/17/19 at 5:05 pm to Tecate
We use the same Scriptures. We have similar theological outlooks as those in the Jewish faith. There is a reason it is called Judeo-Christian values. Early Christianity was considered a sect of Judaism.
And if a person of the Jewish faith wanted to make the claim we don't serve the same God, it would not bother me or offend me. A case could be made either way from their perspective.
Islam and Jewish/Christian faiths are miles apart.
And if a person of the Jewish faith wanted to make the claim we don't serve the same God, it would not bother me or offend me. A case could be made either way from their perspective.
Islam and Jewish/Christian faiths are miles apart.
This post was edited on 2/17/19 at 5:18 pm
Posted on 2/17/19 at 5:17 pm to Rough1
quote:
Really the only difference is the concept of the Trinity vs a singular God. Other than that its Identical. A benevolent all knowing all powerful creator, who created Adam, the God of Abraham, bestowed the 10 commandments to Moses.....
Edit: and just to add, it wasn't until the council of Nicea in 325 AD that Jesus was declared to be God, officially by the religious powers that be
This point about Jesus being recognized as God late in the process is false. Some of the first NT Scriptures were written 30-60 years after Jesus was crucified. And those early writings confirm the perspective of Jesus as the Christ. The later Council of Nicea was about denying apostasy about Jesus that had risen related to Gnosticism, not about coming to some new conclusion about Jesus that was not understood by the early disciples. Jewish Scriptures point to a Messianic figure and many Jewish people are still waiting for a Messianic savior to return (see Isaiah).
Read through the Qur'an and the teachings of Isaiah and Jesus and tell me how much they have in common with Islam... It's a wide gulf.
Posted on 2/17/19 at 5:22 pm to CivilTiger83
quote:
Islam and Jewish/Christian faiths are miles apart.
This isn't true, but it takes a bit of background to understand why. Basically, PM wanted Muslims to pray to Jerusalem (and they did originally before changing it to Mecca), and effectively copied a whole slew of practices, adapting them for the area where he lived. His exposure to Judaism was probably based through his grandmother, who was a member of one of the only Jewish tribes of Arabia. This includes prostration, using one language to pray, when to pray, where to pray, circling the temple (or Kabaa), ritual sacrifice, patterns of dress, rules of modesty, fasting, ablution, the calender, rules about giving birth, circumcision, dowry, marriage ceremonies, the marriage contract, death and burial, among many other features which are directly related to Judaism proper. Many of these similarities share the same root word, such as the dowry (mohar in Hebrew, mahr in Arabic). The link between the religions, in a normative sense, is much closer.
The notion that there is a vast gulf between Judeo-Christians ethics and Islamic ethics ignores quite a bit of history, specifically that the notion of Judeo-Christian ethics was a 20th century invention, and willfully ignores the massive Judeo-Islamic philosophies that arose from 800 to the 15th century. In addition, Jews were treated worse in Christian empires than they were in Islamic ones, as the famous Bernard Lewis touches upon in this essay LINK
The links between Islam and Judaism are pretty overt. There are numerous scholars who reject the Judeo-Christian umbrella, a theme that became extremely common after the Holocaust, when Jewish identity became something else entirely, but was in essence, proud to be different and separate from the gentiles (I'm summing up an incredibly complex identity formation process, with the end result as described above).
This post was edited on 2/17/19 at 5:23 pm
Posted on 2/17/19 at 5:26 pm to Rough1
quote:
Now, I'm no expert in the Koran, but from my understanding of the versus where muslims are called to kill the unbelievers where you find them, was after Muhammad and his companions were driven from Mecca, regrouped in Median, and were at war with the polytheistic Meccan's. Now at sime time during this war a truce was signed. The Meccan's broke the truce, and attacked the muslims. It was in this instance of a broken truce, where the believers were called to kill the unbelievers.
You are correct that his teaching changed from one that tolerated Jews/Christians to one that was not tolerant of any competing worldview.
The problem is that any Islamic religious mullah has scriptural basis to kill anyone with opposing beliefs. And they also are given license to deceive to advance the cause of Islam.
Most Muslims are not bad people. The ideology is rotten at the core. It cannot be ressurected. My hope is that more Muslims find Jesus.
Posted on 2/17/19 at 5:28 pm to ClientNumber9
“No stronger retrograde force exists in the World”. Winston Churchill on Mohammedism 100 years ago. (BTW, a lot of those percentages are way off. Think 2% of The United States is moslem? Not really. < 1%)
Posted on 2/17/19 at 5:31 pm to CivilTiger83
quote:
You are correct that his teaching changed from one that tolerated Jews/Christians to one that was not tolerant of any competing worldview.
The problem is that any Islamic religious mullah has scriptural basis to kill anyone with opposing beliefs. And they also are given license to deceive to advance the cause of Islam.
Most Muslims are not bad people. The ideology is rotten at the core. It cannot be ressurected. My hope is that more Muslims find Jesus.
I think most educated muslims would say, that to kill the unbelievers where you find them, would only apply in a specic case like the above. Not from then hence forth.
Even in Dante's Inferno, the lowest sections of Hell were reserved for oathbreakers
Posted on 2/17/19 at 5:48 pm to crazy4lsu
Yes their are ritual practices that Islam took from Jews/Christians. The fundamental teachings are world's apart.
There is a reason that Islamic countries become totalitarian. All must submit to Allah.
There is a reason that Islamic countries become totalitarian. All must submit to Allah.
Posted on 2/17/19 at 5:49 pm to Rough1
quote:
I think most educated muslims would say, that to kill the unbelievers where you find them, would only apply in a specic case like the above. Not from then hence forth.
And what of the Muslim who converts to Christianity?
Posted on 2/17/19 at 5:55 pm to CivilTiger83
quote:
And what of the Muslim who converts to Christianity?
In many muslim countries that person would be pretty fu@%ed, if he did that publicly. In the West, no problem.
Don't get me wrong, there are many issues with Western culture, namely all this gender dysmorphia madness, but we are still a far superior culture to that of the Islamic world.
Posted on 2/17/19 at 5:58 pm to Rough1
If interested i could link a youtube of muslim guy arguing that apostasy laws in Muslim countries, are simply part of the Social Contract as argued by western Philosophers. (I went down the rabbit hole a few weeks back). Its like a half hour long tho.
Posted on 2/17/19 at 6:01 pm to Rough1
quote:
In many muslim countries that person would be pretty fu@%ed, if he did that publicly. In the West, no problem.
Yes which proves my point. Those laws are directly tied to their religious beliefs. They didn't make up the death sentence for apostasy... It's well established in the Qur'an. Western laws are rooted in a Biblical worldview.
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