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Posted on 5/26/18 at 2:13 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
What's your definition of a person and at how many weeks does an unborn human child qualify as a person?
once it has all the parts to function (whether "viable" or not) i'd call it a person. at ~12 weeks it doesn't even have red blood cells yet
This post was edited on 5/26/18 at 2:15 pm
Posted on 5/26/18 at 2:14 pm to Turbeauxdog
quote:
Your analogy is terrible is because the intent of sex is to procreate. The intent of parking your car is not to have it broken into.
Hence, analogy terrible.
Take your L and move on.
the intent of sex cells is to reproduce but we all jerk off
Posted on 5/26/18 at 2:18 pm to Joshjrn
quote:
Sure, if you have sex, you could get pregnant. If you park overnight in a high crime area, someone might break into your car.
Bad analogy.
In the break-in scenario, the act only occurs due to the unconsented to, criminal action of a third party.
Implementation is a natural occurrence and hardly a criminal action.
You may not intend pregnancy from sex but it's clearly a natural and, at some level, expected outcome.
This post was edited on 5/26/18 at 2:19 pm
Posted on 5/26/18 at 2:18 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
It's Ireland, don't care
Why would you care if it was the US?
Posted on 5/26/18 at 2:41 pm to Antonio Moss
quote:
Bad analogy.
In the break-in scenario, the act only occurs due to the unconsented to, criminal action of a third party.
Implementation is a natural occurrence and hardly a criminal action.
You may not intend pregnancy from sex but it's clearly a natural and, at some level, expected outcome.
I'm not sure why the criminal element is relevant. If all proscriptions against car burglary were lifted tomorrow, I'd still be pretty pissy about it happening to me. And in the alternative, there's nothing stopping us from outlawing a zygote implanting itself without the woman's consent
I disagree on that it's an expected outcome, at any level. If my SO turned up pregnant this month, it would be the height of fricking unexpected, and no amount of assurance from anyone about it being "natural" would be in the least bit soothing
This post was edited on 5/26/18 at 2:42 pm
Posted on 5/26/18 at 2:52 pm to bmy
quote:
once it has all the parts to function (whether "viable" or not) i'd call it a person. at ~12 weeks it doesn't even have red blood cells yet
12 week old human. Pretty obvious what it is. Serious mental gymnastics to deny this is a human baby.
Posted on 5/26/18 at 2:57 pm to Joshjrn
quote:
I'm not sure why the criminal element is relevant. If all proscriptions against car burglary were lifted tomorrow, I'd still be pretty pissy about it happening to me. And in the alternative, there's nothing stopping us from outlawing a zygote implanting itself without the woman's consent
Criminal laws, primarily, are best on the mores of society. If we removed the laws against theft tomorrow, we will you'd still be pissed because someone actively chose to engage in immoral behavior to your detriment. That is not the case with implantation. The zygote is acting naturally without moral demise.
And, sure you may be surprised that your GF gets pregnant because you actively engaged in contraception but that doesn't mean it's not expected given the realities of the act and human error in contraception.
Unexpected would be like if your GF got pregnant and she was verifiably a virgin. That would be cause for a scientific investigation.
Posted on 5/26/18 at 3:01 pm to Antonio Moss
quote:
Criminal laws, primarily, are best on the mores of society. If we removed the laws against theft tomorrow, we will you'd still be pissed because someone actively chose to engage in immoral behavior to your detriment. That is not the case with implantation. The zygote is acting naturally without moral demise.
And, sure you may be surprised that your GF gets pregnant because you actively engaged in contraception but that doesn't mean it's not expected given the realities of the act and human error in contraception.
Unexpected would be like if your GF got pregnant and she was verifiably a virgin. That would be cause for a scientific investigation.
Does relative morality matter? To move from my two sentence analogy to my more detailed cabin analogy, did the poor guy who stumbled into my cabin in order to save his life do something immoral? And again, if he did, does it matter? Further, even though I didn't invite him personally, should I have "expected" that someone might enter my cabin because I had a door that I left unlocked/open?
Posted on 5/26/18 at 3:17 pm to Joshjrn
quote:
To move from my two sentence analogy to my more detailed cabin analogy, did the poor guy who stumbled into my cabin in order to save his life do something immoral?
No, and if you killed him with this knowledge, you would have committed an immoral and illegal act.
Posted on 5/26/18 at 3:22 pm to Antonio Moss
quote:
No, and if you killed him with this knowledge, you would have committed an immoral and illegal act.
Interesting.
But what about if I don't kill him, but I force him outside?
Posted on 5/26/18 at 3:27 pm to Antonio Moss
quote:
No, and if you killed him with this knowledge, you would have committed an immoral and illegal act.
There's no reason to address his analogy, because its asinine.
Posted on 5/26/18 at 3:29 pm to Joshjrn
quote:
But what about if I don't kill him, but I force him outside
And this is why this a bad analogy. Because in the cabin scenario there exists an avenue to both remove the "unwanted" presence without causing its demise. I would imagine that many pro-lifers would be more accepting of abortion if the procedure resulting in the fetus being transplanted into another woman and continuing its life. But that simply isn't the case.
Posted on 5/26/18 at 3:30 pm to AggieHank86
quote:
You would be better-served if you did not digest your history in the form of Pro-Life internet memes.
I'm pro choice fake lawyer...
quote:
“We do not want word to go out that we want to exterminate the Negro population, and the minister is the man who can straighten out that idea if it ever occurs to any of their more rebellious members,”
Don't be a loser. At least pretend to be intelligent.
Posted on 5/26/18 at 3:32 pm to bmy
quote:
the intent of sex cells is to reproduce but we all jerk off
Advertising
Actually the intent of haploid production is genetic recombination. Not necessarily reproduction you fricking imbecile.
Posted on 5/26/18 at 3:34 pm to Antonio Moss
quote:
And this is why this a bad analogy. Because in the cabin scenario there exists an avenue to both remove the "unwanted" presence without causing its demise. I would imagine that many pro-lifers would be more accepting of abortion if the procedure resulting in the fetus being transplanted into another woman and continuing its life. But that simply isn't the case.
Not true. In my cabin analogy, I made very clear that he had no survival skills and we were thousands of miles from anything. If I evict him, he dies, just like he did in my analogy.
Similarly, what if instead of actively killing the zygote/fetus/baby, she simply evicts it from the womb, whether with chemical abortifacient or surgery?
This post was edited on 5/26/18 at 3:37 pm
Posted on 5/26/18 at 3:38 pm to Turbeauxdog
quote:
There's no reason to address his analogy, because its asinine.
He's addressing it just fine, even though we disagree. Your making assertions without backing them up is asinine.
Posted on 5/26/18 at 3:45 pm to Joshjrn
quote:
In my cabin analogy, I made very clear that he had no survival skills and we were thousands of miles from anything. If I evict him, he dies, just like he did in my analogy.
Borders on immoral and still not a good analogy because in abortion the aborted actively participates in the creation of "unwanted" presence.
We could look at like the Dennis Reynolds scenario. If a man invites a woman on a date, brings her on his boat, goes ten miles offshore, and then decides her presence is no longer desired when she denied him sex, would he be immoral for forcing off the boat?
Clearly the answer is yes and nearly every single person on the planet would consider him a murder.
Posted on 5/26/18 at 3:47 pm to Antonio Moss
Where are all you libertarian hypocrites calling out big govetnmrnt?
Posted on 5/26/18 at 3:50 pm to JEAUXBLEAUX
quote:
JEAUXBLEAUX
Your side is going down you POS
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