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Message
re: Interesting how "Evangelicals" are separating themselves from "Protestants".
Posted on 10/8/25 at 9:39 am to FooManChoo
Posted on 10/8/25 at 9:39 am to FooManChoo
quote:
I suppose if your opinion is always going to be whatever the RCC teaches on something, then there's no point in discussing with you.
Again, the irony of you making statements like this is palpable. 
1
Posted on 10/8/25 at 9:42 am to Mo Jeaux
quote:God's word is objective truth. Our duty is to align our beliefs with God's truth through study and prayer.
Then how do you explain people having different interpretations of what the “Word of God” says? Other than “John somers and Foo” are the sole arbiters of the truth.
I remain open to refining or even changing my beliefs about particular interpretations so long as I can be convinced from Scripture, itself, since Scripture is God's word and therefore the highest authority and standard of truth.
The issue with these discussions with Catholics and Orthodox in particular is their view on authority doesn't match mine, so while some like Champagne are fine with just saying "ditto" to whatever the supposedly infallible RCC says, I'm open to being corrected. That means I am not the arbiter of truth, but dependent upon it; Scripture is the arbiter.
Posted on 10/8/25 at 9:44 am to Mo Jeaux
quote:Why is that ironic? All I'm saying is that I'd like to have the discussion, and if someone is not willing to discuss, there's no point in proceeding. I can read a static web page on my own.quote:Again, the irony of you making statements like this is palpable.
I suppose if your opinion is always going to be whatever the RCC teaches on something, then there's no point in discussing with you.
Posted on 10/8/25 at 9:46 am to FooManChoo
quote:
God's word is objective truth. Our duty is to align our beliefs with God's truth through study and prayer.
I remain open to refining or even changing my beliefs about particular interpretations so long as I can be convinced from Scripture, itself, since Scripture is God's word and therefore the highest authority and standard of truth.
The issue with these discussions with Catholics and Orthodox in particular is their view on authority doesn't match mine, so while some like Champagne are fine with just saying "ditto" to whatever the supposedly infallible RCC says, I'm open to being corrected. That means I am not the arbiter of truth, but dependent upon it; Scripture is the arbiter.
So you’re not the arbiter of objective truth, but you’ll only be convinced that something is objective truth when you can be convinced that it is. 
Posted on 10/8/25 at 10:02 am to Mo Jeaux
quote:
what you believe to be God’s word.
There is only one Word of God. To even suggest there is more than one exposes you.
I'm not arguing any other point with you. I don't talk religion or doctrine with non-believers. I only talk salvation with nonbelievers.
So, have you accepted Christ as your personal Lord and Savior?
This post was edited on 10/8/25 at 10:04 am
Posted on 10/8/25 at 10:05 am to John somers
quote:
To even suggest there is more than one exposes you.
To suggest otherwise ignores history.
quote:
I'm not arguing any other point with you. I don't talk religion with non-believers, or doctrine.
Of course not. You’re not intellectually curious. You believe what you believe, and anyone who doesn’t is wrong.
Posted on 10/8/25 at 10:10 am to LockDown
quote:Yes it is. But I get that you don't understand it. First, no Catholic has yet to provide a quote from our lord and savior from outside of scripture that would serve as the origination of anything Catholic. Not even a quote from an Apostle. That's called positive evidence. You have none. If you don't have positive evidence, why would you put any stock into it? Because for Catholics, it's emotional, not theologically objective.
This is still not an answer
quote:Sad. I explained precisely what you asked for, the sufficiency of scripture. Did you blithely dismiss it because you didn't understand it?
This paragraph is a very long non-sequitur
quote:We also know from scripture that what you're referring to is the HS testifying to Jesus, not making up a million Catholic particularities. The Pentecost is an example. They preached the gospel. They didn't have an icon swap or baby baptisms.
From John, we know that the Holy Spirit provided teaching outside of the words spoken by Jesus
quote:First, there's no positive evidence for it. Catholics who know this make up "doctrinal development" to cover up for that. Second, there's nothing in scripture that looks like Catholic practices. Contra the rosary, scripture says to not pray with vain repititions. Jesus vehemently opposed the Catholics of his day - the Pharisees. The ones who kept piling rituals and regulations on top of each other, just like Catholics. Jesus sent the HS, not saints. Catholics have believed that people can be paid out of purgatory. Even praying someone out of purgatory is silly and contrary to Jesus' sacrificial death. The idea that indulgences can be paid for from the treasury of merit is absolutely satanic. I could go on.
provide evidence that specific Traditions - as you state - are not part of these teachings
quote:If it's from scripture, then we know about it, right? If you're referring to something outside of scripture, what is this? Where is the evidence? What precisely does it say?
Textual proof exists that there were teachings handed on to the Apostles that we do not know from the text of Scripture.
quote:SCRIPTURE itself establishes this. Scripture gives NO HINT whatsoever that there are things authoritative outside of scripture. How could there possibly be something necessary for salvation recorded outside of the Bible? That's patently absurd. How could God make such an egregious error? Jesus quoted scripture as the word of God and never intimated that there was something else.
We still haven't established your premise that all authority is contained only in Scripture
quote:The Catholic Church makes the claim and has no evidence. Show me quotes from Jesus or the Apostles not in scripture that refer to Catholic things. It doesn't exist
if you make the claim, provide supporting proof
Posted on 10/8/25 at 10:13 am to gaetti15
quote:Just out of curiosity, does evangelism for you mean convert to Catholic? Or does it mean Romans 10:9? So she responded to a gospel call for repentance of sins and baptism?
I evangelized my wife
If so, I tip my cap to you!! Amazing testimony.
Having said that, that would be the first example I've ever heard of a Catholic evangelizing someone (other than historical missionaries, etc)
Posted on 10/8/25 at 10:14 am to GumboPot
I don't understand the chart.
LVs -?
If it is percent of membership by age it adds up over 100%.
LVs -?
If it is percent of membership by age it adds up over 100%.
Posted on 10/8/25 at 10:22 am to GumboPot
Protestantism has a wide variety of denominations within it.
Even Lutherans have a wide variety within them. There’s the woke evangelicals, the conservative evangelicals. And there’s the woke non-evangelicals and the conservative non-evangelicals.
Some allow female pastors, some don’t.
I’m Lutheran Church -Missouri Synod, which is a conservative non-evangelical denomination. I really hate getting lumped in with some of these other ones.
Even Lutherans have a wide variety within them. There’s the woke evangelicals, the conservative evangelicals. And there’s the woke non-evangelicals and the conservative non-evangelicals.
Some allow female pastors, some don’t.
I’m Lutheran Church -Missouri Synod, which is a conservative non-evangelical denomination. I really hate getting lumped in with some of these other ones.
This post was edited on 10/8/25 at 10:24 am
Posted on 10/8/25 at 10:49 am to Mo Jeaux
quote:This is the difference between what the authority is and what the authority says.
So you’re not the arbiter of objective truth, but you’ll only be convinced that something is objective truth when you can be convinced that it is.
The Bible is the final authority, not me or any other person. My role as a Christian is to seek to understand and receive the truth that God communicates in the authoritative Bible. It is inerrant and infallible but I am not, so while I can be confident in what I think it says, I recognize that I could be misreading it or misunderstanding it. That's why I continue to study it, engage with other wise men who have studied it, and pray about it. That's one reason why I have these discussions.
Since I believe that Scripture interprets Scripture, I look to the Bible, itself, as the arbiter, and I'm seeking to understand it and receive it, conforming my thinking as I study.
Posted on 10/8/25 at 11:03 am to LockDown
quote:This article gives a decent perspective with passages.
Please share the language of the specific passage(s) you are referencing
Of note, the story of Lazarus and the "fixed chasm" and the fact that people in God's presence may not even be fully aware of earthly events.
Colassians 3:2 explains the difference between earthly mentality vs heavenly mentality. People with God are preoccupied with heavenly things, not earthly matters.
Ecclesiastes 9:5 and Psalms 6:5 explain the dead are not aware of at least some living affairs
Revelation 6:9-11 shows people with God crying out for his justice, not busying themselves with the prayers of the living.
Isaiah 65:17 - earthly pain is gone, i.e. the people in God's presence are detached from worldly suffering or the things Catholics pray to saints about
Revelation 5:13-14 and Hebrews 12:22-23 show people with God praising him, not checking prayer emails from people on earth
Revelation 7:15, 22:3 show that people in God's presence are busy serving him, not processing prayers from the living
Posted on 10/8/25 at 11:05 am to gaetti15
quote:Show me where I did this
yall like to pluck phrases or verses out of the Bible and state that they indefinitely prove your point...without taking any context of the paragraph or multiple paragraphs they are included in
Posted on 10/8/25 at 11:08 am to Mo Jeaux
quote:This quip isn't even relevant. The point is Catholics pretend that there's authoritative teachings necessary for salvation outside of scripture but Jesus never said anything about that. He did, however, say that scripture was authoritative
He wasn’t quoting the same scripture that you quote though
Posted on 10/8/25 at 11:12 am to gaetti15
quote:I have responded to everything commented to me, that I am aware of and some things not directed at me. I'm not hiding or ignoring anything
I almost never get responses from folks when I post those links
quote:The one link you directed at me did not supersede the verse I cited
Because in most cases yall dont bother to read them.
Posted on 10/8/25 at 11:29 am to Mo Jeaux
Aaaand doesn't answer the question.
Of course it doesn't. It denies the diety of Christ and refuses to ask Jesus Christ to save it.
It is therefore destined for hell. A garden variety nonbeliever, a spiritual thing cast adrift, bereft of any spiritual guidance or intuition. It is enslaved to demons.
Which is why it isn't worthy of engagement.
Of course it doesn't. It denies the diety of Christ and refuses to ask Jesus Christ to save it.
It is therefore destined for hell. A garden variety nonbeliever, a spiritual thing cast adrift, bereft of any spiritual guidance or intuition. It is enslaved to demons.
Which is why it isn't worthy of engagement.
This post was edited on 10/8/25 at 11:34 am
Posted on 10/8/25 at 11:38 am to Squirrelmeister
quote:Ok. Thanks
Laugh all you want
quote:Prove it's fake
The fake history
quote:Yes, the worshipped idols from time to time. Not even controversial.
The Bible itself records all the other deities they had in the temples
quote:Again, laughable. Here's a question, why did the Jews hate the Samaritans?
Also the first temple cult was just evolved Canaanite mythology
quote:There’s no way you can prove this nonsense because you're not a mind reader, you don't have counterfactual evidence (positive evidence) and scripture disagrees with you (negative evidence)
the scriptures don’t reflect reality because they were written by the scribes and priests who wanted to consolidate power in Jerusalem in one city at one temple so they could collect their share of the offerings
It's ahistorical doodoo believed by lunatics and people with an agenda
quote:YEC is not the only biblical position. Fail
Humans didn’t start from a single pair of humans. There was never a global flood
quote:This again? Go read our previous conversation.
elephantine fortress
quote:Which was unprecedented and still a mistake today. Besides, that's only 1 deuterocanonical book by 1 Christian denomination. Hardly a ringing endorsement
declared 2 Maccabees canonical
quote:And shepherd of Hermas was read in Christian services for decades. So what?
Greek speaking Jews and the Hebrew and Aramaic speaking Jews all kept copies of 2 Maccabees. Hardly an extremist view, and you know it.
quote:Quoting it does not mean he thought it was divinely inspired. Why is it not quoted anywhere else in scripture? Paul quoted Aratus, Epimenedes and Menander. So what
So that author believed 1 Enoch was inspired scripture and that’s recorded in your Bible
Let's get down to brass tacks. All of this buffoonery is coming from Finkelstein (argument from silence) and the documentary hypothesis. Both of those sources are pathetic. Finkelstein had his 15 mins of fame and no JEDP sources have ever been found. Now go run back to Dan and tell him he's still a fraud
Posted on 10/8/25 at 11:40 am to gaetti15
quote:Who told you that? Your Catholic handlers? Ask them to prove it by only referring to scripture, you know, the word of God
The Eucharist is the body, blood, soul and divinity of Jesus Christ
Posted on 10/8/25 at 11:42 am to gaetti15
quote:It's not a matter of interpretation because it doesn't exist in scripture.
You have your interpretation and I have mine
Posted on 10/8/25 at 11:44 am to gaetti15
quote:Even Jesus presented it as symbolic, not his literal body and blood. It's silly. At least consubstantiation is slightly defendable
Its perfectly rational for me to believe in transubstantion
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