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re: Instead of Socialism, how about a well funded Democracy?

Posted on 7/23/26 at 8:59 am to
Posted by UtahCajun
Member since Jul 2021
6825 posts
Posted on 7/23/26 at 8:59 am to
quote:

All of them are examples of collectivism

You do realize government itself is collectivism right?
quote:

Collectivism always pulls left because it operates on a leftist foundational principle

All governments exist to grow their own power. This means all governments pull to the left. Going right would be the opposite of what it wants.
quote:

Those programs are all expansions on the size of government and the bigger the government gets, the more fraud and waste and idiocy you're going to have.

Not all of what I posted is government programs and the ones I did post were just to shoot down the played out idea that social programs = socialism. You and I may never have the chance to argue over existing programs since it sounds like neither of us agree with most of them. I only mentioned SSI to bring up the failed attempt to save it in the 1990's.
quote:

There is some measure of that that it makes sense to employ, such as the infrastructure that you mentioned, but even with a necessary project such as that, you don't think government construction contracts inherently come with waste, fraud, back room deals made in smoke-filled rooms with men twisting their mustaches and laughing like Vincent Price?

I really used to love the "muh roads" arguments when I was younger. Not saying that is about to happen now. Sounds like we would agree on this. We both know road contracts are fraught with fraud and are one of the most inefficient things governments do. California can't even get out of its own way for a monorail.
Posted by Geekboy
Member since Jan 2004
8398 posts
Posted on 7/23/26 at 9:00 am to
quote:

Better Social Security solvency


quote:

Who wants to tell him?


You ready to give up your Social Security when available or give up your Medicare when available?

When Social Security was debated in 1935 critics said it would expand government power, discourage individual responsibility and move the country to a European style welfare state.

It was even worse with Medicare. The American Medical Association organized a major opposition effort known as Operation Coffee Cup and it was seen as a step toward socialized medicine.

But we all depend on it today. It’s not seen as Socialism today.
Posted by Taxing Authority
Houston
Member since Feb 2010
63846 posts
Posted on 7/23/26 at 10:07 am to
quote:

You ready to give up your Social Security when available or give up your Medicare when available?
Happily. But, that’s not relevant. Dependency and popularity are not mutually exclusive to socialism.

quote:

But we all depend on it today. It’s not seen as Socialism today.
That’s nice. It’s also meaningless. Millions of people believe the earth is flat, or we never went to the moon.
This post was edited on 7/23/26 at 10:08 am
Posted by Clames
Member since Oct 2010
19849 posts
Posted on 7/23/26 at 10:28 am to
The answer is never giving more people free shite. We need fewer social safetynet programs and more individual accountability. We need to bring back shaming those that live on welfare when they are perfectly capable of working. SNAP should be limited to basic food items, nothing ready-made like frozen dinners or similar items, and only enough to prevent malnutrition.
Posted by Swamp Angel
West Georgia Chicken Farm Territory
Member since Jul 2004
10415 posts
Posted on 7/23/26 at 1:54 pm to
Your post is pretty good and you make some solid points until you get to this part:

quote:

That could have financed substantially more of the following:

Universal or near-universal healthcare coverage.
Better Social Security solvency.
More affordable college and vocational education.
Paid family leave and childcare assistance.
Improved infrastructure.
Stronger poverty and disability programs.
Lower taxes for working- and middle-class households.


Out of that list, the federal government should only be involved in "Improved infrastructure" as directly related to interstate commerce, and "lower taxes" (across the board - not just for working and middle class Americans). All the other things listed are every bit as wasteful as the items in the points you made before that.

Universal or near-universal healthcare coverage - Not a constitutionally authorized government expenditure

Better Social Security solvency - needs to be revamped and funds invested and made off-limits to congress for borrowing for any other program

More affordable college and vocational education - not a constitutionally authorized government expenditure. It has already led to nearly insufferable increases in tuition and the creation of completely worthless courses of study with degrees that provide no value to anyone.

Paid family leave and childcare assistance - again, not a constitutionally authorized government expenditure.

Improved infrastructure - insofar as it is directly related to our roads and highways, postal services, and the improvement and support of interstate commerce, this is a rare good thing.

Stronger poverty and disability programs - And again... Not a constitutionally authorized federal expenditure. This has led to all kinds of issues related to single parent families, generational government support, generational poverty, and inequality based upon racial lines.

Lower taxes for working- and middle-class households - This should be the goal for ALL Americans who earn income, not only working class wage earners and middle class income households. I'm far from wealthy, but I don't eye those who are wealthy (be it by their own hard work, investments, or inheritance) with an evil, envious eye. It's not my money, it's theirs. They should not be taxed at a higher rated than anyone else.

With all that said, I still think you are 100% correct on the front end of your post.
Posted by donut
Face, USA
Member since Jan 2004
3256 posts
Posted on 7/23/26 at 2:15 pm to
quote:

Instead of Socialism, how about a well funded Democracy?


So you want to change our government structure as well?
Posted by keks tadpole
Yellow Leaf Creek
Member since Feb 2017
8819 posts
Posted on 7/23/26 at 2:21 pm to
Our States are where democracy has it roots. Popular vote for Senators should be abolished by Amendment.
Posted by FlySaint
FL Panhandle
Member since May 2018
2654 posts
Posted on 7/23/26 at 4:24 pm to
quote:

. Instead of Socialism, how about a well funded Republic?


Better
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