re: I'm not a Catholic, but this priest gets it

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Yes, just most of the bishops, archbishops, cardinals, and popes for centuries. A small minority.

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Nope. You’re making shite up. Sexual abuse rate among priests is about 4%, about the same as non Catholic clergy. By comparison, the abuse rate among public school teachers is 6%. Using your logic, a core principle of public education in America is the sexual abuse of students. More so than among Catholic priests. Of course this sounds ludicrous, as does the utter dumbfvckery you’ve exhibited in this thread.

Now, let’s see what kind of bullshite you can make up next.

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Since you've added a new wrinkle to this old argument of yours

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I think you are referring to the sons of El Elyon receiving all their own people groups and land as inheritances, and each having authority only over their own people and lands? It’s not new. I’ve brought that up countless times on here. In their ancient Israelite polytheistic theology, gods only had power and authority in their own inheritance (land) and could even only be worshipped on their own land. Let me give you a few examples.

Psalm 137… they couldn’t worship Yahweh when they were exiled in Babylon. This is the psalm with the ending about a murder fantasy of dashing the innocent Babylonian babies against the rocks… you know the one.

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1By the waters of Babylon, there we sat down and wept, when we remembered Zion.
2On the willows there we hung up our lyres.
3For there our captors required of us songs, and our tormentors, mirth, saying, “Sing us one of the songs of Zion!”
4How shall we sing the LORD’s song in a foreign land?

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1 Samuel 26… Saul forces David into exile in Philistia where David is unable to worship Yahweh (he must worship the Philistine gods) and he laments possibly dying away from the presence of Yahweh (in Philistia).

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17Saul recognized David’s voice and said, “Is this your voice, my son David?” And David said, “It is my voice, my lord, O king.”
18And he said, “Why does my lord pursue after his servant? For what have I done? What evil is on my hands?
19Now therefore let my lord the king hear the words of his servant. If it is the LORD who has stirred you up against me, may he accept an offering, but if it is men, may they be cursed before the LORD, for they have driven me out this day that I should have no share in the heritage of the LORD, saying, ‘Go, serve other gods.’
20Now therefore, let not my blood fall to the earth away from the presence of the LORD, for the king of Israel has come out to seek a single flea like one who hunts a partridge in the mountains.”

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2 Kings 5… Naaman the Syrian is healed of leprosy and wants to go back to Syria and worship Yahweh, but in order to do so, he has to take two mule loads of Israelite soil back to Syria. A bonus is this verse directly implies there are other gods, which I know you will enjoy.

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17Then Naaman said, “If not, please let there be given to your servant two mule loads of earth, for from now on your servant will not offer burnt offering or sacrifice to any god but the LORD.

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I should mention that 2 Samuel 8:2 would disagree with your made up analysis. It says David conquered Moab and had them serve him (and therefore Israel). I'm not sure how that would be possible if Chemosh was was a real deity of the Moabites with authority and power over YAHWEH due to his geographic boundary

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You must’ve never read Judges or the books of Samuel and Kings. I’ll break it down for you.

You see, when the Canaanite groups such as the Israelites and Moabites conquered a nation, the credit was normally given to their own national deity, such as Yahweh or Chemosh. However, when they lost a battle or war, the excuse was always that their own deity was angry with their own nation.

Let’s take a look at the excuse from 2 Kings 17…why did Assyria conquer Israel? Because the Israelites worshipped other gods. We know elsewhere that the anger of Yahweh, whose name is Jealous, burns when his people worship foreign gods.

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6In the ninth year of Hoshea, the king of Assyria captured Samaria, and he carried the Israelites away to Assyria and placed them in Halah, and on the Habor, the river of Gozan, and in the cities of the Medes.
7And this occurred because the people of Israel had sinned against the LORD their God, who had brought them up out of the land of Egypt from under the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt, and had feared other gods

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And let’s look at the excuse of 2 Kings 24 about why the Babylonians were able to conquer Judah… because Yahweh was pissed, but why? Because they worshipped foreign gods of course.

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1In his days, Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon came up, and Jehoiakim became his servant for three years. Then he turned and rebelled against him.
2And the LORD sent against him bands of the Chaldeans and bands of the Syrians and bands of the Moabites and bands of the Ammonites, and sent them against Judah to destroy it, according to the word of the LORD that he spoke by his servants the prophets.
3Surely this came upon Judah at the command of the LORD, to remove them out of his sight, for the sins of Manasseh, according to all that he had done,

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Next let’s look at the Moabites’ own legends…why was King Omri of Israel allowed to oppress Moab? Let’s find out by checking what the Mesha Stele says…

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Omri was king of Israel, and he oppressed Moab many days, because Chemosh was angry with his land.
But I triumphed over him and over his house, and Israel has perished forever!"

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It’s the same Canaanite formula. Win a battle? Thank the local national deity. Lose a battle? The national deity must’ve been pissed at us and he is punishing us. The Mesha Stele refers to the same mythology of Deuteronomy 32:8-9… Chemosh was also a son of El Elyon and inherited Moab.

One of my other favorite parts of the Mesha Stele, written by a scribe during the rain of Mesha in the 9th century BCE, was this gem…

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Chemosh said to me, 'Go, take Nebo from Israel!' So I went by night and fought against it...

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So apparently in the 9th century, Israel was worshipping Nebo - another Semitic deity - the namesake of the king of Babylon who was to conquer Jerusalem about 300 years later .

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This is what I mean when I say you cherry-pick what you want from the Bible instead of using the whole of Scripture

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Wrong. That’s you. It’s sad that you don’t know about of the history or context of the biblical world. You should learn more.

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You keep repeating these conspiracy theories and minority positions

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This is standard secular (unbiased) scholarly consensus. I didn’t figure this out myself or make it up. But the good thing is it’s all there for me and you and anyone to verify, so you don’t have to take my word for it.

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You just want to mock God

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Nah, I can’t mock that which doesn’t exist. I prefer to mock you.

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This issue with Moab is just one example of the lies you spew

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And it’s plain as day in 2 Kings 3. Anyone can read it. Elisha prophecies a win. Yahweh is with Elisha and Israel. It’s going well until the king of Moab makes a sacrifice, and immediately after as a result divine fury drives Israel back home. So easy even a caveman can understand it.

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you just keep repeating the same debunked garbage

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You say “nuh uh” and claim you’ve debunked me.

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This is why I haven't been wasting my time with you lately

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I’m really glad you replied with me. I do enjoy making you look like a fool, while helping others break the shackles of their indoctrination and false reality.

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Your argument was that the Bible taught that Chemosh was a real god that had regional authority and power even over YAHWEH

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You’re not listening or not comprehending. It is historical fact that the Canaanite groups believed that the high god had sons and established fiefdoms for each of his many sons to inherit and lord over people groups on their inherited land. These Canaanite peoples believed - or used it as an excuse - that if they won a battle, it was because of their deity, but if they lost a battle on their own land, it was because their deity was angry with them.

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which is why you think the Bible teaches Chemosh defeated YAHWEH.

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I think it because it states it. In 2 Kings 3 it doesn’t explicitly state it is Chemosh that did the divine fury against the Israelite invaders sending them packing, but it does say that the Moabite king made a sacrifice and as a result divine fury defeated the Israelites. So who did the Moabite king sacrifice his son to, exactly? Was it Yahweh, the deity who detests child sacrifice ? Do you want to make the argument that Yahweh accepted that sacrifice and then changed his mind and actually started killing his own army? I’d like to hear that argument from you. But really it was the Moabites sacrificing to whichever god was the deity they worshipped - their national deity perhaps. And we know from elsewhere in the Bible the Moabites worshipped Chemosh. And Mesha, the Moabite king, wrote that it was Chemosh who enabled them to defeat the Israelite invaders. So most likely it was Chemosh that defeated Yahweh (not in reality, but in their mythology).

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The rest of your words are rehashed and debunked lies. You don’t understand the Bible and you interpret it according to other false beliefs, making the Bible claim to say or mean something it doesn’t, which is exactly what you did about Moab, which I showed was false.

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Everything you wrote here is bullshite.

He mentions Catholics not associating with freemasons. What is this about? i dont know much about the freemasons. Is there some core freemason cause that is anti-Catholic or anti-Christian?

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You’re not listening or not comprehending. It is historical fact that the Canaanite groups believed that the high god had sons and established fiefdoms for each of his many sons to inherit and lord over people groups on their inherited land. These Canaanite peoples believed - or used it as an excuse - that if they won a battle, it was because of their deity, but if they lost a battle on their own land, it was because their deity was angry with them.

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I'm not interested in what other Canaanite peoples believed. I'm speaking about the Bible. Only the Bible is the infallible word of God.

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In 2 Kings 3 it doesn’t explicitly state it is Chemosh that did the divine fury against the Israelite invaders sending them packing

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That is the critical admission here. It doesn't explicitly say it, so you are making an assumption. There are a few other interpretative options regarding this passage, but you merely assume one interpretation to be true based on your biases rather than using the Bible to interpret itself. This is what I have a problem with and why I say that you continue to lie about what the Bible says.

I don't need to explain to you again why your interpretation is unnecessary and wrong; I've done that several times in the past.

All I wanted to do was show you that your specific claim about Chemosh being a real god with real authority over Moab which prevented Israel (YAHWEH) from defeating the Moabites was wrong, as Israel did defeat Moab and the Moabites more than once in their land. You'll have to make up another excuse.

Father at Catholic Church in Bossier where I attend. He said same thing in regards with Trans, homosexuality, and abortion.

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Sure it is. I’ll paste the words in question where you said that Chemosh was able to defeat YAHWEH because He wandered outside His domain where He had authority.

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You’re totally missing the point, so I’ll help you out. You said I argued that Chemosh was a real god with authority of Moab. The part you are wrong about was that I never argued that Chemosh was a real god. I’m an atheist and don’t believe that ancient Canaanite mythology is consistent with our reality. On the other hand, the pre-exilic writings such as 2 Kings 3 were written by a sect of Iron Age Canaanites known as the Israelites, and they did believe the Canaanite mythology of all their neighbors that El Elyon gave his sons such as Yahweh and Chemosh tracts of land to lord over the people in those lands.

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You specifically link power to win battles with authority over national boundaries, as you said before, as well. The implication here is that YAHWEH has no power where He has no authority, and His authority is limited to Israel, His inheritance. Not only is that a false statement from the whole of Scriptures,

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It’s not that they have no power elsewhere, it’s that the deity isn’t often even present outside of their own inheritance. Each son of El is supposed to be sovereign over their inheritance, and so the people on their own land are only supposed to be able to lose a fight if their own deity is angry with them. I cited many biblical verses and I don’t think you read any of them or else you’d understand. Remember David not being able to worship Yahweh in Philistia, or the exiles in Babylon not being able to worship Yahweh, or heck even the Hebrew slaves in Egypt couldn’t worship Yahweh in the city (they had to go to the wilderness remember)? Your brain is probably blue screen of death at this point.

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2 Kings 3, where Israel’s victories of Moab led to the “wrath” verse you keep misinterpreting.

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You keep saying that, but the only logical conclusion is that the divine wrath which drove the Israelites out of Moab was Chemosh. Let me repeat what I said earlier - this is not something that I “figured out” or alleged. This is the unbiased secular scholarly consensus. Rather than accuse me of misinterpreting, perhaps you should brush up on what the consensus of the smartest people on their subject matter who have dedicated their lives to studying the subject matter say. The sacrifice was made to Chemosh, and then immediately and as a result of the sacrifice, divine fury from Chemosh was released against Israel. That is the scholarly consensus, not even my own interpretation, but I do agree with the scholars. Here’s an excerpt from biblehub.com, one of my go to websites.

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Moab also occupied Israel for a time due to Israel’s unfaithfulness,

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Yes that’s what the Bible says and that is consistent with the Canaanite mythology used by Israel, Moab, Edom, Judah, Ammon, Phoenicia, etc. All lost battles are only due to their own god being angry with them. Well maybe not all, but most. There was the time Yahweh lost on his home turf to opponents with iron chariots, the Bible says, precisely because and as a result of the iron chariots.

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Now that I’ve explained why you are wrong, I’ll end my part of this discussion. Like I said before, you are blind and nothing apart from the work of the Spirit convicting you of your sin and need for forgiveness will change you

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