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re: If Putin is a war criminal for the Ukraine invasion...
Posted on 10/11/22 at 11:38 am to BengalOnTheBay
Posted on 10/11/22 at 11:38 am to BengalOnTheBay
Who is currently winning? The winner normally determines who the war criminals are...
Still waiting on GWB to be declared one along with Dickey boy...
Still waiting on GWB to be declared one along with Dickey boy...
0
Posted on 10/11/22 at 11:39 am to JJJimmyJimJames
quote:
John Mearscheimer
You should read what he wrote on offensive realism then, because the US did exactly that with regard to the Russia after the fall of the USSR. Of course you'll name-drop him, but won't have read him, just like Solzhenitsyn.
Posted on 10/11/22 at 11:46 am to BengalOnTheBay
quote:
You seem like a Nation magazine subscriber.
Good one
I thought you were making a joke with the Stephen F. Cohen Memorial Board. Apparently you were serious. Yikes.
Posted on 10/11/22 at 11:50 am to Decatur
It would be funny if Cohen wasn't the most important writer regarding Russian history and culture since the fall of the USSR.
Without understanding Russian history or their cultural formation, you really can't have any basis for discussing current geopolitical realities.
Without understanding Russian history or their cultural formation, you really can't have any basis for discussing current geopolitical realities.
Posted on 10/11/22 at 12:36 pm to BengalOnTheBay
quote:
Was JFK a war criminal for threatening a pre-emptive invasion/attack on Cuba during the Cuban Missile Crisis?
Didn't you answer your own question?
Cuba was already a puppet state of the USSR, not an ally, a puppet state. They were placing first-strike, offensive weapons on an island nation where there was really not much to defend anyway.
Ultimately, the crisis was resolved without the use of force with (1) a very public unwillingness to backdown and (2) backroom diplomacy that was largely unknown at the time.
Very different.
Posted on 10/11/22 at 12:38 pm to BengalOnTheBay
quote:
At least Bush neocons can half-arse defend him by pointing to 9/11...
What did Iraq have to do with 911?
Posted on 10/11/22 at 12:50 pm to Powerman
quote:
What did Iraq have to do with 911?
Terrorists.
Posted on 10/11/22 at 1:35 pm to Broadside Bob
quote:
Cuba was already a puppet state of the USSR, not an ally, a puppet state. They were placing first-strike, offensive weapons on an island nation where there was really not much to defend anyway.
Should Putin have believed that Ukraine was not a puppet state (or perhaps plaything may be a better term) for Western governments? And that NATO would never expand to Ukraine or at least place offensive weapons there?
quote:quote:
What did Iraq have to do with 911?
Terrorists.
Exactly.
This post was edited on 10/11/22 at 1:36 pm
Posted on 10/11/22 at 1:35 pm to BengalOnTheBay
I'm not sure you know how analogies work.
Posted on 10/11/22 at 1:41 pm to BengalOnTheBay
quote:
look forward to a logical and informed discussion.
You didn’t start it well with a pretty stupid OP and premise.
Nothing about what’s happening in Ukraine was preemptive or justified.
Nothing that’s happening in Ukraine is relevant to the Cuban Missile Crisis.
Putin is not a war criminal.
Posted on 10/11/22 at 1:43 pm to JJJimmyJimJames
quote:
experts
quote:
Henry Kissinger
Posted on 10/11/22 at 4:25 pm to Indefatigable
quote:
You didn’t start it well with a pretty stupid OP and premise.
Nothing about what’s happening in Ukraine was preemptive or justified.
Nothing that’s happening in Ukraine is relevant to the Cuban Missile Crisis.
The USSR putting nukes in Cuba and NATO expanding its borders (which comes along with stationing of offensive weaponry) to the border of Russia is not analagous?
Posted on 10/11/22 at 4:36 pm to BengalOnTheBay
quote:
The USSR putting nukes in Cuba and NATO expanding its borders (which comes along with stationing of offensive weaponry) to the border of Russia is not analagous?
No, its not. And even if it were, it is totally irrelevant.
Russia did not invade Ukraine because of NATO. Invading Ukraine so that NATO cannot position "offensive weapons" on Russia's border is quite literally one of the dumbest faux-justifications imaginable. NATO already has territory directly on Russia's border, in the same proximity to vital Russian cities and assets as Ukraine. Why didn't Russia invade Estonia and Latvia in 2004?
Your analogy also ignores that NATO’s nukes are not in the border or former Warsaw Pact nations. Outside of the US/UK/France, the other nukes are deployed in Belgium, Italy, and Germany.
Russia wants the land back because Russia considers those areas to be Russian, and Russia wants its hegemony over its historical sphere of influence back. NATO is nothing but a most convenient scapegoat.
This post was edited on 10/11/22 at 5:08 pm
Posted on 10/11/22 at 4:38 pm to Zach
quote:
Threatening is not a war crime. You have to actually DO something.
This.
And it was Kennedy who promised the Soviets he wouldn't invade Cuba if they withdrew their MRBMs from Cuba.
Posted on 10/11/22 at 4:38 pm to BengalOnTheBay
There's no such thing as a war criminal.
Posted on 10/11/22 at 4:38 pm to BengalOnTheBay
No.
Posted on 10/11/22 at 4:39 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
And it was Kennedy who promised the Soviets he wouldn't invade Cuba if they withdrew their MRBMs from Cuba.
The whole thing was nothing but a ploy to get US missiles out of Turkey.
Posted on 10/11/22 at 4:51 pm to BengalOnTheBay
Some difficulty in seeing a "pre-emptive" threat of invasion and an actual invasion as comparable grounds for the tag "war criminal."
We haven't called Putin a war criminal over here - yet.
Although Milosevic who did far less than he has, actually got his "invitation" to appear before The Hague.
He died incarcerated.
But of course Milosevic's was a "safe" invitation since he didn't have nukes.
We haven't called Putin a war criminal over here - yet.
Although Milosevic who did far less than he has, actually got his "invitation" to appear before The Hague.
He died incarcerated.
But of course Milosevic's was a "safe" invitation since he didn't have nukes.
This post was edited on 10/11/22 at 4:54 pm
Posted on 10/11/22 at 5:07 pm to BengalOnTheBay
That’s your comparison?! Wake me up when Ukraine is given nuclear weapons from the West and uses them to threaten Russia
Posted on 10/11/22 at 5:10 pm to jackamo3300
quote:
We haven't called Putin a war criminal over here - yet. Although Milosevic who did far less than he has, actually got his "invitation" to appear before The Hague.
Yep. Russia isn’t a party to the Rome statute. Putin has the exact same chance of going on trial in The Hague as a U.S. POTUS does. Absolutely zero.
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