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Started By
Message
re: If Abortion isn't murder then why do people get charged with murder/manslaughter when they
Posted on 11/22/23 at 6:18 pm to UKCatsnation76
Posted on 11/22/23 at 6:18 pm to UKCatsnation76
To those saying its my body. You do not share a beating heart with the entity in question. You do not share brainwaves. You do not even have identical DNA.
As harsh as it is for you to have to face, you are a natural incubator. No more no less. The entity in question is different than you.
Nowhere in the Constitution does it say you have the right to kill said entity. Indeed if the men that wrote it could see what you are doing, they would probably hang you as murderers.
Personally Life of the mother should take precedence IMO. Incest nowadays is extremely rare. And rape can be taken care of today in a day or so, even before we are even sure of a pregnancy really.
Abortion as a form of birth control today, with the methods available to us, should not be necessary. The numbers could be brought down so low that it should not be the issue that it is.
As harsh as it is for you to have to face, you are a natural incubator. No more no less. The entity in question is different than you.
Nowhere in the Constitution does it say you have the right to kill said entity. Indeed if the men that wrote it could see what you are doing, they would probably hang you as murderers.
Personally Life of the mother should take precedence IMO. Incest nowadays is extremely rare. And rape can be taken care of today in a day or so, even before we are even sure of a pregnancy really.
Abortion as a form of birth control today, with the methods available to us, should not be necessary. The numbers could be brought down so low that it should not be the issue that it is.
This post was edited on 11/22/23 at 6:25 pm
3
Posted on 11/22/23 at 6:24 pm to antibarner
quote:Do you actually KNOW anyone who claims that the fetus is part of the woman's body? Yours is a complete red herring argument. "My body, my choice" refers to laws which force a woman to provide her body (involuntarily) as an incubator.
To those saying its my body. You do not share a beating heart with the entity in question. You do not share brainwaves. You do not even have identical DNA.
As harsh as it is for you to have to face, you are a natural incubator. No more no less. The entity in question is different than you.
quote:And nowhere does it obligate a woman to serve as that incubator. The damned document DOES NOT ADDRESS IT. That is the reason (well, one of the many reasons) that it is rightly a STATE issue, rather than a Constitutional issue. If Texas wants to impose that obligation, so be it. If Virginia chooses not to do so, so be it.
Nowhere in the Constitution does it say you have the right to kill said entity.
quote:Nonsense. Abortion (mostly with abortifacients) was common in colonial America. Prohibitions did not become remotely common until the mid-19th century.
Indeed if the men that wrote it could see what you are doing, they would probably hang you as murderers.
This post was edited on 11/22/23 at 6:30 pm
Posted on 11/22/23 at 6:28 pm to antibarner
quote:
To those saying its my body. You do not share a beating heart with the entity in question. You do not share brainwaves. You do not even have identical DNA.
As harsh as it is for you to have to face, you are a natural incubator. No more no less. The entity in question is different than you.
Nowhere in the Constitution does it say you have the right to kill said entity. Indeed if the men that wrote it could see what you are doing, they would probably hang you as murderers.
Personally Life of the mother should take precedence IMO. Incest nowadays is extremely rare. And rape can be taken care of today in a day or so, even before we are even sure of a pregnancy really.
Abortion as a form of birth control today, with the methods available to us, should not be necessary. The numbers could be brought down so low that it should not be the issue that it is.
Be a martyr all you want -- 70% of Americans think women should have a right to abortion, and 70% do NOT believe it's "murder".
Posted on 11/22/23 at 6:33 pm to Antoninus
Hank , they chose not to be responsible enough to prevent themselves from becoming said incubators. You just stepped in it when you ADMIT the fetus is a living being.
Killing a helpless living being for any reason, but especially for reasons of convenience, to me is a monstrous act.
For years your Marxist buds swore by Roe v Wade and killed millions. and would have been content to continue to do so. This was not a state based law right now was it, counselor?
And don't even try to sell us on abortions being freely done openly in Colonial days. Just don't.
Killing a helpless living being for any reason, but especially for reasons of convenience, to me is a monstrous act.
For years your Marxist buds swore by Roe v Wade and killed millions. and would have been content to continue to do so. This was not a state based law right now was it, counselor?
And don't even try to sell us on abortions being freely done openly in Colonial days. Just don't.
This post was edited on 11/22/23 at 6:35 pm
Posted on 11/22/23 at 6:38 pm to antibarner
quote:The Constitution provides very specific, limited protections. It does not address abortion, either way. Thus, Roe notwithstanding, it should ALWAYS have been treated as a State issue.
they chose not to be responsible enough to prevent themselves from becoming said incubators.
Killing a helpless living being for any reason, but especially for reasons of convenience, to me is a monstrous act.
quote:my shoes are clean. I've never said anything different.
You just stepped in it when you ADMIT the fetus is a living being.
The relevant CONSTITUTIONAL question is whether the Constitution EITHER (a) guarantees a right to abortion or (b) allows Congress to prohibit abortion.
It does neither of those things.
So, we end up arguing policy at the State level, as it should be. 50 laboratories, and all that.
quote:"Open?" No, it was considered a private matter, like most medical decisions/procedures. But it was quite common, again with abortifacients, not surgery. I could refer you to dozens of articles, but you wouldn't read them.
And don't even try to sell us on abortions being freely done openly in Colonial days. Just don't.
This post was edited on 11/22/23 at 6:48 pm
Posted on 11/22/23 at 6:57 pm to Antoninus
There are some statutes where murder would be considered a Federal crime...the assassination of a President comes to mind but the charge would likely not be murder.
But killing a helpless living human being is murder. It is the act of a monster as I said.
Abortiions in Colonial times were not openly done. LINK
But killing a helpless living human being is murder. It is the act of a monster as I said.
Abortiions in Colonial times were not openly done. LINK
quote:
The key pro-life question from the seventeenth through the early nineteenth centuries, therefore, was: How could desperate unmarried women be helped? Pre-marriage social pressure pushed most young men to do the right thing, and legal action was a backup. At no time was abortion considered legitimate and legal, but the practice did occur when some women fell through the cracks, taking their unborn children with them.
Posted on 11/22/23 at 7:46 pm to gymnopedies13
quote:
Be a martyr all you want -- 70% of Americans think women should have a right to abortion, and 70% do NOT believe it's "murder".
I could link some abortion vids that may cause the 70% to ponder their beliefs.....but I might get the ban hammer.
Posted on 11/22/23 at 7:51 pm to Bass Tiger
quote:
Be a martyr all you want -- 70% of Americans think women should have a right to abortion, and 70% do NOT believe it's "murder".
If 70 percent of the population doesn't think that 2 + 2 = 4 it doesn't make it so.
Most of the people that say abortion isn't murder also say that a dude in a dress is a woman.
This post was edited on 11/22/23 at 7:54 pm
Posted on 11/22/23 at 8:08 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:
quote:
up to and including birth
quote:
killing children at birth
quote:
Quick Google search of current Oregon abortion regulations. ......
I'm shocked to see you fail.
Again.
Merriam Webster definition of birth.....
What is considered a birth?
Birth is the act or process of bearing or bringing forth offspring, also referred to in technical contexts as parturition. In mammals, the process is initiated by hormones which cause the muscular walls of the uterus to contract, expelling the fetus at a developmental stage when it is ready to feed and breathe.
Oregon abortion law has no restrictions before the baby is born, so that would be abortion up to and including birth, you may be confused with being born rather than the birthing process, then again I'm sure there's some progressive dictionary out there that uses birth and born interchangeably....you could probably find that source and then you can claim you're right.
Posted on 11/22/23 at 8:15 pm to Tiger BTT
quote:
If 70 percent of the population doesn't think that 2 + 2 = 4 it doesn't make it so.
Most of the people that say abortion isn't murder also say that a dude in a dress is a woman.
A majority certainly would.
Posted on 11/22/23 at 8:17 pm to Bass Tiger
Hmm...
That's a yikes for you.
Now that we've cleared that up for you, I'm wondering when you're going to give a single example of this.
I don't care about your interpretation of any of this because that means exactly nothing.
Guess I'll keep waiting.
quote:
birth
noun
1 a: the emergence of a new individual from the body of its parent
quote:
birth, n.
The fact of being born; the emergence of offspring from the body of its mother
That's a yikes for you.
Now that we've cleared that up for you, I'm wondering when you're going to give a single example of this.
I don't care about your interpretation of any of this because that means exactly nothing.
Guess I'll keep waiting.
Posted on 11/22/23 at 8:33 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
You're right in one regard, it doesn't really matter because I can cite a definition from Merriam Webster that distinguishes between birth and born and I was certain there could be a source that sees no difference and you would find it.
1
a
: the emergence of a new individual from the body of its parent
see also DATE OF BIRTH
b
: the act or process of bringing forth young from the womb
The bold is where the Oregon abortion law lives....up to and including birth.
But once again this ^^^^ is all semantics, the post that you originally replied to that got off in the weeds with this "meaningless" discussion posed a question,
When is the death of an unborn child considered murder/manslaughter?
Apparently the answer is when a woman wants the child it'a a miraculous blessing and when she doesn't want the child it's an inconvenience that can be terminated up to and including the birthing process in Oregon.
1
a
: the emergence of a new individual from the body of its parent
see also DATE OF BIRTH
b
: the act or process of bringing forth young from the womb
The bold is where the Oregon abortion law lives....up to and including birth.
But once again this ^^^^ is all semantics, the post that you originally replied to that got off in the weeds with this "meaningless" discussion posed a question,
When is the death of an unborn child considered murder/manslaughter?
Apparently the answer is when a woman wants the child it'a a miraculous blessing and when she doesn't want the child it's an inconvenience that can be terminated up to and including the birthing process in Oregon.
Posted on 11/22/23 at 8:39 pm to Bass Tiger
quote:
b
So, after you tried to pretend I'd have to go digging for a definition to support my assertion, you try to do exactly that.
quote:
I was certain there could be a source that sees no difference and you would find it.
Well, I "found" two sources that correctly define the term as you used it. You failed because you assumed I needed to go digging and didn't already know what I was talking about...as is always the case.
You really should've just admitted that I was correct from the start.
...aaaaand, we haven't even started discussing the other side of this: contraceptives.
This post was edited on 11/22/23 at 8:42 pm
Posted on 11/22/23 at 8:42 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:
Honestly, I'm not so sure any of you actually believe it's murder by any definition.
^ I’m assuming your meth shipment arrived early based on that statement?
Posted on 11/22/23 at 8:43 pm to idlewatcher
Babies are being murdered, and you have nothing but jokes that are mildly amusing?
You're the real hero.
You're the real hero.
Posted on 11/22/23 at 10:36 pm to Tiger BTT
quote:
either cause the premeditated/intentional death of an unborn child (murder), or the accidental death of an unborn child(manslaughter).
By legal definition, abortion not only is murder, but first degree murder because it is premeditated.
So it's not a crime when mommy/doctor intentionally murder the baby, but it's a crime if someone else does ?
How does that make sense from a logical standpoint, even for Pro Choice people?
The 38 state Feticide laws and the Federal Unborn Victims of Violence Act of 2004 all post-date Roe v Wade. Part of the policy basis for the legislation was specifically to create the exact conundrum you are pointing out.
Posted on 11/23/23 at 7:11 am to Antoninus
quote:
My body, my choice" refers to laws which force a woman to provide her body (involuntarily) as an incubator.
This is my favorite characterization of pregnancy I’ve ever read on this site.
Posted on 11/23/23 at 7:15 am to Topisawtiger
So only children that are wanted constitutes murder? A lot of homeless and orphans are about to be targeted per that logic. Makes perfect sense to no one except the mentally retarded Left and white women who feel guilty for being white
Posted on 11/23/23 at 7:50 am to Antoninus
All AggieHank is is a words smith. Like most Dems. 
Posted on 11/23/23 at 8:05 am to Antoninus
quote:
Nonsense. Abortion (mostly with abortifacients) was common in colonial America. Prohibitions did not become remotely common until the mid-19th century.
Sounds an awful lot like slavery.
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