re: I really would like to understand the pro-choice POV as it relates to life

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I'm not religious, I have no use for it.

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Everyone has a worldview. No one is neutral. Some worldviews are shaped by religion while others are shaped by something else. That said, "religion" doesn't provide a rational basis for reality. Only Biblical Christiany does. Without it, there is no basis for intelligibility in the world, whether it is science, logic, or ethics.

I'm curious what your presuppositions are. Where does morality come from in your worldview and why is that something others should adhere to, if they should?

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I am more or less pro life, though.

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Why?

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I don't think that abortion (or anything else) should be regulated for religious reasons. I think there should be a scientific definition used to when life begins and then move from there. Saying that life starts at conception because jesus and the soul is a poopoo reason and you will lose that fight.

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Neutrality is a myth. If you are an empiricist, that is a worldview just like Christianity is a worldview. Why should we use empiricism as the basis for morality and truth instead of Christianity? It's not neutral, nor does it have a rational basis behind it. Everyone interprets evidence based on their worldviews. Facts are brute, but must be interpreted.

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Does life end when a heart beat stops? Does life begin with the heartbeat? Yeah it ain't that simple but that's my thought on it.

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Even if that were the case (it is, and I agree with you), why should that matter in your worldview? If you don't have "religion" as your basis for morality, what is it and why should you or anyone care about it? Why should we care about living human beings, unborn or born?

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I really would like to understand

You aren't trying to understand.

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You aren't paying attention

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You are arguing your point and not trying to hear anything. You are being purposefully obtuse. You "believe no one can argue against the assertion that life begins at conception." And i respect that, but don't act like you are actually listening and trying to understand.

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I've have not argued my point in the least. I do believe that the scientific POV is that life begins at conception, but I've not made that the point of the thread. I said it one time as an aside. At least 2 pro-choice people have made the same assertion in this thread. But it's neither here nor there. I'm not arguing that point in this thread. What I want to know is what pro-choice people think they're aborting. Do they see the fetus as a human life? The one time in this thread that I got an actual answer to my question I thanked the person and moved on. No argument, no follow up question, no rebuttal.

Seriously, your comments are completely baseless and unfair.

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I don’t feel you or me or anyone else should put our beliefs on someone else.

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yet you're doing it with this statement so clearly, you DO believe in putting your beliefs on others.

is it right to murder an unborn baby merely for convenience? yes or no?

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life has a way of presenting grey-area exceptions

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but that's not what the issue is. the issue is if it's morally acceptable to murder a baby merely for convenience. the answer is quite facile but people want to make it complicated so they can assuage their conscience

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"Thou shalt not murder" is a Judeo-Christian moral absolute

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this statement makes no sense. you're trying to say it's a morally relative statement and then calling it an absolute statement. it's one or the other. it's either applicable to all people at all times or it's only applicable to those who accept it.

the question remains (regardless of one's religious predispositions): is it morally acceptable to murder a baby merely for the sake of convenience?

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If a woman decides that bringing a fetus to term will trigger a chain of events

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predicting the future is not a consideration in murdering a person. a pregnant woman is faced with a discrete choice - murder or not.

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Sometimes it’s easy to predict your own ability to handle trauma

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then give the baby up for adoption. that way you avoid the morally repugnant act of murder for the sake of convenience.

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Yes, lives have been lost when women do not have abortion as an alternative

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link?

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extenuating circumstances

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such as?

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must be protected as such universally without exception

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that's not what's being discussed. we're talking about murder for the sake of convenience. you know, more than 95% of all abortions?

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it just doesn’t stand up to reason every time

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it is ALWAYS wrong to murder for the sake of convenience

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AggieHank86

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there goes the neighborhood

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it is my opinion that this fact should not matter one iota for purposes of the early-term abortion debate.

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noted. your opinion is stupid

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With impunity, we kill all the other organisms with heartbeats

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tell me why this has ANYTHING to do with humans murdering humans for the sake of convenience. i've asked you this question numerous times

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I have formed the belief that this distinguishing trait is sapience ... something that no other species shares

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you've never said WHY you think this matters. you've merely asserted it.

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something that an early-term fetus has not yet developed

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as stated many times before, this is a losing qualification. can we start murdering old people because they are a drag on society/medicine? can we start murdering people with genetic defects? can we start murdering people with mental illness or neurological impairment? they most certainly lack "sapience." yet another question you've never answered

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Others think that the distinguishing trait is a “soul,” which magically pops into the fertilized egg of just one single species among the millions of species on this rock, apparently swimming up the vagina alongside spermatozoa

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1. prove that it doesn't exist.
2. you've admitted your "sapience" qualification is the same in that you don't know precisely what it is or when it is fully manifested.

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humans are special because they are humans. Hard to contest with the “logic” of a circular argument, other than to realize that it is entirely circular

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yet in this case, it's literally true, by your own admission - sapience. so again, tautologies are not unreasonable if the premise is epistemically sound in an axiomatic way, which is true in this case, again, as you have acknowledged.

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No answer is inherently right or wrong

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is it acceptable to murder a baby merely for he sake of convenience? yet another question you won't answer

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especially if the continued existence of that organism infringes upon the rights of another organism which DOES display sapience

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ah yes, the old mother's "burden." yet another aspect you won't explain

your take on this issue sucks. also, you don't understand the term sapience. it merely means wisdom, which animals can display, thus destroying your entire "analysis."

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The woman explains repeatedly that’s it’s all about the woman’s right to choose.

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This line of thought drives me up a wall. They HAD the right to choose before they got pregnant. They chose a behavior and now they don’t want to live with the outcome of that choice.

It also is crazy to me that the man is never given a voice in this debate. Once a women gets pregnant, they are only a vessel at that point to bring a child into this world. I’m sorry, but that is the way nature works. Your a vessel. She didn’t get to that point alone so why is her opinion the only one that matters?

not to hijack the thread....but it is very simple

Abortion is an act of convenience. It is used as birth control......in the vast majority of occasions.

end of story

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My question: how is a fetus with a heartbeat not a human being? 

Please, no snark and no sarcasm. You’ll get none from me. I’d just like to hear the other side’s honest perspective

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It's not viable

I don't believe in abortion personally