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re: How is it possible that some Protestant churches support gay marriage?

Posted on 5/19/25 at 5:17 pm to
Posted by jizzle6609
Houston
Member since Jul 2009
20035 posts
Posted on 5/19/25 at 5:17 pm to
quote:

One of the greatest dangers in how the phrase “once saved always saved”


100% agreed.

I’ve never understood this mindset and always thought it very lazy even when I was 15 years old.

Never made sense Jesus had to endure what he endured yet we get “saved” and we don’t have to work for anything we will just inherently be good people. lol. Makes me laugh.
Posted by jizzle6609
Houston
Member since Jul 2009
20035 posts
Posted on 5/19/25 at 5:21 pm to
quote:

That's exactly what Paul talks about when he says to finish the race. We Orthodox believe in sy


I love the Orthodox. I cannot wait until we reconcile.

Also, huge respect on the Lenten season sacrifices. I learned this year of what the Orthodox do for lent (at least this dude) and I have to say it’s tough stuff. True sacrifice.
This post was edited on 5/19/25 at 5:22 pm
Posted by Canon951
Member since May 2020
615 posts
Posted on 5/19/25 at 5:24 pm to
I didn't say that. You asked a hypothetical scenario that if someone is truly saved and then goes out and commits a "insert any" heinous crime if they would still be saved. I gave you a hypothetical answer of "yes", however I clarified it with no true Christian believes or wants to live like that because the Holy Spirit lives within them. If I wasn't clear on that then I apologize.

My point is someone who gets saved is saved forever. God accepts responsibility for keeping them saved. If it was up to us we would lose it. He keeps us faithful. We pay the consequences in this life and the next for our sins, but our soul remains secure because of belief.

Christians throughout history have done some bad stuff. David committed adultery with Bathsheba and then had her husband killed to try to cover it up. God refers to David as a man after his own heart. Abraham fornicated with the help and had a kid, Samson was fooling around with Delilah. Lot lived in Sodom, got drunk and slept with his daughters. God calls him Righteous Lot. All of those people are considered heroes of the faith. And Peter even denied Jesus 3 times. So obviously Christians/Believers can sin.
Posted by Canon951
Member since May 2020
615 posts
Posted on 5/19/25 at 5:29 pm to
quote:

Never made sense Jesus had to endure what he endured yet we get “saved” and we don’t have to work for anything


It's crazy for us as humans to try to understand this. But this is how God intended it because all Glory goes to him for our salvation and no one will be boasting in heaven that we somehow added to any of this. That is the ultimate gift he gave us.
Posted by Mike da Tigah
Bravo Romeo Lima Alpha
Member since Feb 2005
61832 posts
Posted on 5/19/25 at 5:29 pm to
quote:

So as long as a man believes he can rape, pillage, murder, and blaspheme for the rest of his days and still expect salvation? I’m sorry brother but I can’t agree with that.

And with all due respect, I think you are misinterpreting scripture. And I think it is arrogant to suggest that you know you are saved. I hope that I will be saved.


The assurance is from Faith in God’s word, not something we do, or feel. It is faith alone because without faith it is impossible to please God. This is where we meet God.

No one who ever comes to faith in Jesus alone as their savior comes away unchanged because it is a change of heart and He gives us a heart of flesh to replace the heart of stone. The Holy Spirit then comes into your life at the moment you believe, and guides you in all things. You can sin, but the effects of sin are very real and applicable, and more so, you will no longer enjoy sinning as you once did. You can still run further until the tugging at your heart fades, but you will still never find happiness or contentment, only misery and the longing is still there, and after you’ve spent your father’s inheritance and find yourself sleeping in the mud with the pigs, God is still there to welcome you back to fellowship with Him, and there is nothing like it. God is actual real love, and mercy like man does not understand.

Once you’ve had God’s goodness, everything else is hot garbage. If our goodness and righteousness were prerequisites for coming to God or having a relationship with God through Christ, then absolutely none of us would be able to have a relationship with God because regardless of your sin, all sin separates us from Him, but only in Christ and His righteousness can we enter in to fellowship with Him, and when we believe upon Him, that righteousness of Christ is imparted to us who believe, and no other reason but that. The cost He paid, and the Glory is His alone, not to be shared.




Posted by Uga Alum
Member since Jul 2022
6519 posts
Posted on 5/19/25 at 5:29 pm to
Right, you just believe that their sins after expressing belief in Christ are irrelevant for salvation.
Posted by Canon951
Member since May 2020
615 posts
Posted on 5/19/25 at 5:31 pm to
quote:

You can still run further until the tugging at your heart fades, but you will still never find happiness or contentment, only misery and the longing is still there, and after you’ve spent your father’s inheritance and find yourself sleeping in the mud with the pigs, God is still there to welcome you back to fellowship with Him, and there is nothing like it. God is actual real love, and mercy like man does not understand.


Posted by jizzle6609
Houston
Member since Jul 2009
20035 posts
Posted on 5/19/25 at 5:33 pm to
quote:

Are you trying to suggest that once a man believes in Jesus it is impossible for him to truly do bad things? Because that is obviously untrue.


I’m telling you it’s not a road you want to venture down lol.

I’ve had this argument many times and those sects of Christianity are 100% convinced being saved is all you need.

They are going to argue they can’t do evil once they are saved because being saved in itself allows them to always do good.

It’s really unbelievable if you think about it. It’s the easy way out. Jesus did all the work.

Posted by FooManChoo
Member since Dec 2012
46823 posts
Posted on 5/19/25 at 5:35 pm to
I actually agree with pretty much everything you said. I believe the Scriptures present a both-and rather than an either-or in terms of "eternal security" and the need to persevere in the faith, so you're right in that it could be dangerous to tell someone "you are saved, now you don't have to worry about what you do from now on", since I believe God uses these warnings of perseverance to accomplish the perseverance that He will accomplish in us.
Posted by Uga Alum
Member since Jul 2022
6519 posts
Posted on 5/19/25 at 5:35 pm to
Right, so you believe that once someone mentally believes in God it changes their hearts and they no longer desire to do bad things. I can’t agree with that.
Posted by cssamerican
Member since Mar 2011
8206 posts
Posted on 5/19/25 at 5:38 pm to
Is this coming from a Southern Baptist perspective, or is it more in line with Calvinism? It sounds more Calvinist to me. Just curious, what denomination are you coming from?
Posted by Canon951
Member since May 2020
615 posts
Posted on 5/19/25 at 5:38 pm to
quote:

Right, you just believe that their sins after expressing belief in Christ are irrelevant for salvation.


Salvation has nothing to do with works. It is 100% based on belief. If we can be good enough to go to heaven by not sinning then why did Jesus go through all of that at the cross? We cannot be good enough to go to heaven; before or after salvation. Jesus said we have to be perfect, just like God is perfect. It's impossible for us, but he was "perfect" for us, and all who put their faith in him receive his perfection. So when God looks at us, he sees the perfection of Christ; not our imperfections. In the meantime we should live holy lives, abstain from sin, do good works, etc., but that is because we have been saved, not in order to be saved.
Posted by Uga Alum
Member since Jul 2022
6519 posts
Posted on 5/19/25 at 5:40 pm to
Then why the need for Jesus to come back and judge the living in the dead?

Oh, of course, you probably believe in the rapture.
Posted by FooManChoo
Member since Dec 2012
46823 posts
Posted on 5/19/25 at 5:41 pm to
quote:

So Adam and Eve were predestined to disobey God?
Yes, though they freely chose to sin.

We were predestined and chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world (Ephesians 1:4–5, 11; Romans 8:29–30; and 2 Timothy 1:9), which means that happened before Adam had sinned.
Posted by Uga Alum
Member since Jul 2022
6519 posts
Posted on 5/19/25 at 5:41 pm to
Yeah, I can’t agree that you can sin endlessly after expressing belief without repentance and still receive salvation.
Posted by FooManChoo
Member since Dec 2012
46823 posts
Posted on 5/19/25 at 5:42 pm to
quote:

How do you know you're elect? How do you "know" anything, for that matter, if we don't have free will?
1 John seems to have been written to provide us assurance of faith. Perhaps you should read that book and let me know if you have any further questions
Posted by FooManChoo
Member since Dec 2012
46823 posts
Posted on 5/19/25 at 5:43 pm to
quote:

Furthermore, the idea that God would create souls knowing that they are destined for damnation is not just depressing, it’s devastating.
For the Christian, it should be extremely humbling and cause us to give thanks and praise to God for His mercy in saving people who do not deserve it.
Posted by cssamerican
Member since Mar 2011
8206 posts
Posted on 5/19/25 at 5:44 pm to
quote:

Then why the need for Jesus to come back and judge the living in the dead?

Oh, of course, you probably believe in the raptur

At this point, I’ve got to know, what do the Greek Orthodox believe outside of Sola Scriptura?
Posted by Uga Alum
Member since Jul 2022
6519 posts
Posted on 5/19/25 at 5:44 pm to
I can’t believe that God made some souls knowing that they were destined to fail and some knowing that they are destined for salvation. That’s awful. And if that’s the case, why should any of us try to be good if our destiny is sealed?
Posted by Canon951
Member since May 2020
615 posts
Posted on 5/19/25 at 5:45 pm to
Reading all the responses above, let me be clear. We are called to live holy lives. There are consequences for sin in this life and in the next. I personally believe that heaven will not be the same for everyone. Some people will rule and reign with Christ and others will get in with their tail feathers smoking. And this will be based on how they lived the Christian life after salvation. But belief in the gospel is all that is required to be saved. I've given numerous scripture references that say just that. What we feel about the situation or what makes sense to our human minds is irrelevant.

And believe me Christians can sin. I'm in a race with the Apostle Paul as the Chief of Sinners.
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