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Started By
Message
re: Houston shooter Grand Jury formed
Posted on 1/20/23 at 8:07 am to SlowFlowPro
Posted on 1/20/23 at 8:07 am to SlowFlowPro
But how do we expect citizens to know this, and act reasonably and rationally within the law when faced with life threatening injuries?
The guy was only in this position to commit his “self defense crime” because he was being a victim of an armed crime.
We have changed laws that being in a car or helping commit a crime that leads to a murder can get the accomplice also charged with murder. The victims “crime” should be passed off to the criminal
The guy was only in this position to commit his “self defense crime” because he was being a victim of an armed crime.
We have changed laws that being in a car or helping commit a crime that leads to a murder can get the accomplice also charged with murder. The victims “crime” should be passed off to the criminal
3
Posted on 1/20/23 at 8:08 am to oogabooga68
I don't think the deceased is going to offer testimony at trial that can be impeached
Posted on 1/20/23 at 8:08 am to SlowFlowPro
Gotcha. Misread your point.
Texas adopted a slight modification of the federal rules of evidence, and I think Louisiana did the same. Rule 404 is probably pretty similar in both states. .
Texas adopted a slight modification of the federal rules of evidence, and I think Louisiana did the same. Rule 404 is probably pretty similar in both states. .
Posted on 1/20/23 at 8:08 am to Eighteen
quote:
The victims “crime” should be passed off to the criminal
Today, we need more information such as race and gender before deciding guilt or innocence in self defense situations.
Posted on 1/20/23 at 8:09 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Today, we need more information such as race and gender before deciding guilt or innocence in self defense situations.
The Political affiliation of the DA trumps all.
Posted on 1/20/23 at 8:11 am to Eighteen
quote:
But how do we expect citizens to know this, and act reasonably and rationally within the law when faced with life threatening injuries?
You can never know because ultimately, the law is a system of people and people are unreliable. You're subject to the randomness of which 6-12 people you get on a jury, up to the point of how each person is feeling on the day they end up having to deliberate.
But, as a practical matter, understanding that the default response should not be a belief in direct self defense is a start. There seems to be a theme in these threads of people who believe that just because they may be able to kill a perp, they should kill the perp as their first move. Within the context of the law, that's a FAFO situation.
quote:
We have changed laws that being in a car or helping commit a crime that leads to a murder can get the accomplice also charged with murder.
Felony murder has been around a LONG time.
quote:
The victims “crime” should be passed off to the criminal
If the deceased didn't die and the shooter killed a third party, the deceased could be charged with felony murder still.
Posted on 1/20/23 at 8:11 am to Eighteen
quote:
But how do we expect citizens to know this, and act reasonably and rationally within the law when faced with life threatening injuries?
I know what cops would have done, that perp would have had 50 holes in him.
We're held to a higher standard, obviously.
Posted on 1/20/23 at 8:13 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
I know what cops would have done, that perp would have had 50 holes in him.
We're held to a higher standard, obviously.
I 100% agree this should be inverted.
Posted on 1/20/23 at 8:15 am to oogabooga68
quote:
The Political affiliation of the DA trumps all.
There's not a soul in the world that trusts the legal system, except those who make a living from it.
Double that when it comes to "self defense." Look at the shite they put Rittenhouse through.
We need fewer laws, lawyers, judges and cops. Let me protect myself, the world is a better place.
Posted on 1/20/23 at 8:16 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:Good summary. They also believe that the Second Amendment guarantees not JUST the right to own a weapon BUT ALSO a right to shoot people with it.
There seems to be a theme in these threads of people who believe that just because they may be able to kill a perp, they should kill the perp as their first move. Within the context of the law, that's a FAFO situation.
It just does not register that the USE of the weapon is a separate and distinct issue, governed (usually) by STATE law and not by the 2bd Amendment.
Posted on 1/20/23 at 8:18 am to SlowFlowPro
Good response and agree.
I think ultimately Im just pissed that this is a byproduct of being “lenient”’on crime and criminals and allowing them to commit crimes over and over again.
The fact that an armed robbery could lead to a law abiding productive citizen to use self defense to protect themselves and others (which is traumatic and could also lead to criminal charges like this case) is MORE of a reason to keep criminals locked up.
Vigilante justice is a downstream side effect of refusing to prosecute small crimes. It all trickles that way
I think ultimately Im just pissed that this is a byproduct of being “lenient”’on crime and criminals and allowing them to commit crimes over and over again.
The fact that an armed robbery could lead to a law abiding productive citizen to use self defense to protect themselves and others (which is traumatic and could also lead to criminal charges like this case) is MORE of a reason to keep criminals locked up.
Vigilante justice is a downstream side effect of refusing to prosecute small crimes. It all trickles that way
This post was edited on 1/20/23 at 8:19 am
Posted on 1/20/23 at 8:18 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:I suspect that lawyers “trust“ the legal system less than the average layman.
There's not a soul in the world that trusts the legal system, except those who make a living from it.
As flawed as our system may be, however, it beats mob justice.
Posted on 1/20/23 at 8:20 am to Eighteen
quote:
Vigilante justice is a downstream side effect of refusing to prosecute small crimes. It all trickles that way
The system is broken beyond repair.
The police and courts do not protect citizens. In fact, the rights of the accused are more important in the process than the rights of the victims.
Except in self defense cases, it seems.
Posted on 1/20/23 at 8:21 am to Eighteen
quote:You would not have a great deal of difficulty convincing me to vote in favor of a return to prison farms and forced inmate labor.
Vigilante justice is a downstream side effect of refusing to prosecute small crimes. It all trickles that way
If prison were more unpleasant, I think that we would have fewer criminals. Certainly fewer repeat offenders.
Posted on 1/20/23 at 8:25 am to AggieHank86
quote:
As flawed as our system may be, however, it beats mob justice.
Your premise is flawed.
This isn't "mob justice".
This is a man who was put in an extraordinary circumstance and is now being judged by people like you who cast hate from their safe space.
You have no idea what this man was feeling at the time.
Your biggest concern is virtue-signaling about craft beer on a message board, his was making sure this animal didn't cause any harm to anyone.
Because our Judicial System has been polluted by Limousine Liberals like you who don't suffer real-world repercussions for their assinine , overly lofty ideals, this mans' life will now probably be ruined.
You are too corrupt to understand that extraordinary measures including a purge of the grifters sucking off the teat of the system is long overdue.
Posted on 1/20/23 at 8:26 am to AggieHank86
quote:
As flawed as our system may be, however, it beats mob justice.
Not in every case. Blanket statements rarely hold truth.
If DAs want to let violent criminals run amok, I don't have any problem with citizens protecting themselves or taking out violent criminals.
That "social contract" seems really fricked up right now.
Posted on 1/20/23 at 8:30 am to oogabooga68
quote:
Your premise is flawed.
Absolutely.
Most people who support the status quo live in gated communities and flit with the girls at brunch, have no clue what life poor people are living.
The most astounding case of social disease you'll find. Its the basis for the lefts "White supremacy" conspiracy theories. There's some truth to it.
People not affected by dysfunction claim dysfunction doesnt exist.
Posted on 1/20/23 at 8:35 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
That "social contract" seems really fricked up right now.
Exactly. To me, aiming a gun at someone (or any type of weapon) while committing a crime is an extreme breach of social contract and should be dealt with swiftly and harshly (regardless of of a trigger is pulled or if it is pulled and a victim survives). Should not be tolerated in a modern society
Posted on 1/20/23 at 8:36 am to AggieHank86
quote:
forced inmate labor.
Not for this at all. Labor should be used to create incentives and modify behaviors, not punishment.
The last thing you want to do is connect labor with punishment for a criminal, if you want to reform them.
Posted on 1/20/23 at 8:37 am to Eighteen
quote:
Exactly. To me, aiming a gun at someone (or any type of weapon) while committing a crime is an extreme breach of social contract and should be dealt with swiftly and harshly (regardless of of a trigger is pulled or if it is pulled and a victim survives). Should not be tolerated in a modern society
The rule of law is dead. It really is.
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