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re: Homosexuality not caused by genetics. They ar not "born that way ETA Addit link added
Posted on 7/5/17 at 6:25 pm to Turbeauxdog
Posted on 7/5/17 at 6:25 pm to Turbeauxdog
quote:
Right, likely because they grow up in identical environments.
First of all, that isn't true. Nobody has indentical environmental exposures. One twin drinks, the other doesn't. One was bullied, one wasn't. One had six concussions, the other didn't. One preferred chocolate milk, the other regular. Etc.
Second, this quietly operates under the (hidden) assumption exposure to sexual deviance is what leads to homosexuality, despite only a minority of homosexuals reporting any physical or sexual abuse as children. And among twins of abuse victims, less than half were abused themselves.
So long story short: Your claim is nonsensical on multiple levels
3
Posted on 7/5/17 at 6:29 pm to Roger Klarvin
quote:The odd thing about the politics of the debate: the sides are flipped from the nature v. nurture debate regarding intelligence.
First of all, that isn't true. Nobody has indentical environmental exposures. One twin drinks, the other doesn't. One was bullied, one wasn't. One had six concussions, the other didn't. One preferred chocolate milk, the other regular. Etc.
Of course, the true answer is rarely even 100% one or the other.
Posted on 7/5/17 at 6:29 pm to buckeye_vol
quote:
Don't the estimates seem reasonable: 1/3 of the variance attributed to genetics and 2/3 attributed to the environmental conditions?
If there is ANY genetic component to homosexuality, entire beliefs systems immediately get thrown out the window. Such an idea is an existential threat to the beliefs of literally billions of people.
I don't know if it is genetic or not, to any degree, but I can entertain both possibilities. That's what separates me from them.
Posted on 7/5/17 at 6:30 pm to Roger Klarvin
quote:
So long story short: Your claim is nonsensical on multiple levels
You sure are upset being gay is a choice...
It's ok. You prefer the same sex. That isn't bad.
Posted on 7/5/17 at 6:32 pm to Roger Klarvin
quote:I don't understand this though. I'm not religious, so maybe that's the issue, but what about there being a potential genetic component is a threat to a belief system? It seems that people decide something is incongruent with their belief system, even when there is little reason that it MUST be.
If there is ANY genetic component to homosexuality, entire beliefs systems immediately get thrown out the window. Such an idea is an existential threat to the beliefs of literally billions of people.
Posted on 7/5/17 at 6:32 pm to CptBengal
quote:
You sure are upset being gay is a choice...
I'm not upset at all. If two dudes wanna play tummy sticks, I don't care if it's genetic or not.
I'm just calling out bad science and logical inconsistency.
Posted on 7/5/17 at 6:35 pm to buckeye_vol
quote:
I don't understand this though. I'm not religious, so maybe that's the issue, but what about there being a potential genetic component is a threat to a belief system? It seems that people decide something is incongruent with their belief system, even when there is little reason that it MUST be.
Heck, I'm apparently one of the people in danger of having my belief system destroyed and it's unclear to me why or how..
Posted on 7/5/17 at 6:35 pm to buckeye_vol
quote:
I don't understand this though. I'm not religious, so maybe that's the issue, but what about there being a potential genetic component is a threat to a belief system? It seems that people decide something is incongruent with their belief system, even when there is little reason that it MUST be.
The idea that God would create someone, or allow someone to be created, with an inherently sinful trait over which they are blameless for fundamentally contradicts traditional Jewish, Christian and Muslim theology.
Posted on 7/5/17 at 6:36 pm to buckeye_vol
quote:
Huh? I don't see anything that debunks the estimates, just the notion that a specific genetic profile has been identified.
There are a number of things that have shown Heritability without identifying the specific mechanisms that cause it.
quote:
I just edited the OP. Maybe you should go back and read it.
"We still have found the gay gene."
So, unless you know more than the scientists...do tell.
anyway when the band gets back together let me know.
I want y'all to play Thin Lizzy "The Boys are Back in Town" for me.
Posted on 7/5/17 at 6:38 pm to Roger Klarvin
quote:
The idea that God would create someone, or allow someone to be created, with an inherently sinful trait over which they are blameless for fundamentally contradicts traditional Jewish, Christian and Muslim theology.
No it doesn't...all men are born sinful to the core..
Posted on 7/5/17 at 6:38 pm to Roger Klarvin
quote:
If two dudes wanna play tummy sticks
Is that what you and your bf call it?
Posted on 7/5/17 at 6:42 pm to DawgfaninCa
quote:
Shouldn't it be determined so that they don't cut the little boy's balls off if he is a homosexual and not a female trapped in a male's body?
They shouldn't do that, either.
Posted on 7/5/17 at 6:43 pm to Errerrerrwere
quote:I'm not arguing that we've found a gay gene. I'm arguing that heritability is often found without identifying the specific mechanisms.
I just edited the OP. Maybe you should go back and read it.
"We still have found the gay gene."
quote:Well this isn't my specific area of expertise, but my PhD is an psychology so I at least have a foundation in the heritability and neurophysiological basis of behavioral traits.
So, unless you know more than the scientists...do tell.
This post was edited on 7/5/17 at 6:46 pm
Posted on 7/5/17 at 6:47 pm to Roger Klarvin
quote:
The idea that God would create someone, or allow someone to be created, with an inherently sinful trait over which they are blameless for fundamentally contradicts traditional Jewish, Christian and Muslim theology.
The whole point of the story of Cain, was he was born into sin, and was able to kill his sinless brother. Why would he choose to do that? Kill the only person his age, his best friend? He chose murder, others choose 'the ghey'. Its our nature. Walk with your creator, or walk with your own lusts.
Don't even get me started on an entire world being cleansed in the Noah story
Posted on 7/5/17 at 6:47 pm to Dawgfanman
quote:
No it doesn't
And yet, we have a 500 response thread filled with posts like the ones below vehemently denying homosexuality can possibly be genetic:
quote:
It doesn't take a study to know people aren't born as sinners.
quote:
The Bible says that it is "against nature" and that homosexuals have "changed" to it, so it is a FACT that they are NOT BORN THAT WAY.
This post was edited on 7/5/17 at 6:48 pm
Posted on 7/5/17 at 6:48 pm to Errerrerrwere
Are you from Iowa, by chance?
Posted on 7/5/17 at 6:51 pm to League Champs
quote:
The whole point of the story of Cain, was he was born into sin, and was able to kill his sinless brother. Why would he choose to do that? Kill the only person his age, his best friend? He chose murder, others choose 'the ghey'. Its our nature. Walk with your creator, or walk with your own lusts.
Don't even get me started on an entire world being cleansed in the Noah story
Hundreds of millions of dollars are spent by Christian and Muslim affiliated groups annually to attempt to "prove" homosexuality isn't genetic and to advertise it as a choice.
Every thread on this board debating the topic sees dozens upon dozens of Christians refuting the idea that being gay is genetic with such ferocity you can feel the anger in their text.
This is not the behavior of people whose beliefs are valid either way. These are visceral reactions to existential threats.
It's the same reason "disproving" evolution in such a massive industry.
Posted on 7/5/17 at 6:54 pm to Dawgfanman
quote:
No it doesn't...all men are born sinful to the core..
Do you mean already sinful or with the potential for sin?
Posted on 7/5/17 at 6:56 pm to League Champs
quote:
Don't even get me started on an entire world being cleansed in the Noah story
No, please, we beg of you, don't withhold your enlightened commentary on this fable from us.
Posted on 7/5/17 at 6:57 pm to CrimsonTideMD
quote:
Do you mean already sinful or with the potential for sin?
Unable to not sin. We must try our hardest to not sin, but all of us fall short..all.
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