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Gun Violence & Mental Illness - American Mental Health Counselors Assn
Posted on 8/12/19 at 11:20 am
Posted on 8/12/19 at 11:20 am
I had a conversation on here with one of you PoliBaws several months ago who works in the mental health universe about how to make sure "mentally ill" don't end up with guns. I remember he corrected me, and educated me as well. Most mentally ill people are NOT violent, which is why trying to enact laws that target mental illness in particular - with reference to gun rights, or any rights for that matter, is so problematic.
Since then, I've moved to being a strict opponent of Red Flag Laws. It's a false premise that mental illness leads to gun violence. Plus after FISA abuse and IRS spying, there's no way you could convince me that a red flag system wouldn't be abused by Leftists who project all their horseshite on other people.
This blog post (by a mental health professional), contained some useful info about how to make sure to keep guns out of the hands of people more prone to commit acts of gun violence. I think it's an interesting list, that Feds should look at - b/c everything on the list requires a due process finding, and a history of violent behavior - rather than putting the onus on shrinks or family members to put the person on a "crazy people list." No invading of someone's medical records is required.
It's also interesting to note that people who are mentally ill have some absurdly increased risk of being victims of violent crimes themselves. My word - if that's true - why are we taking away their right to protect themselves.
I think I read somewhere that the common thread among these massshooters were absent fathers; and prior commission of domestic violence.
Also, I would add to the list STOP FEMINIZING BOYS and removing their outlets for physical activity and building things from their education. We absolutely need to make sure that boys have an outlet for their energy.
TLDR: Read this link - and tell me your thoughts.
Gun Violence & Mental Illness: Myths and Evidence-Based Facts
Since then, I've moved to being a strict opponent of Red Flag Laws. It's a false premise that mental illness leads to gun violence. Plus after FISA abuse and IRS spying, there's no way you could convince me that a red flag system wouldn't be abused by Leftists who project all their horseshite on other people.
This blog post (by a mental health professional), contained some useful info about how to make sure to keep guns out of the hands of people more prone to commit acts of gun violence. I think it's an interesting list, that Feds should look at - b/c everything on the list requires a due process finding, and a history of violent behavior - rather than putting the onus on shrinks or family members to put the person on a "crazy people list." No invading of someone's medical records is required.
quote:
Firearm prohibitions should be expanded to include:
-More individuals with a history of violent behavior, which greatly increases the risk for perpetration of future violence toward others.
-Specifically, individuals convicted of violent misdemeanor crimes and those subject to ex parte domestic violence restraining orders should be temporarily prohibited from purchasing or possessing firearms.
-Individuals with a history of risky substance use, which heightens risk of violence toward others (NOTE: this isn't in there but Wednesday thinks this should be temporary like below).
- Specifically, individuals convicted of multiple DWIs or DUIs and multiple misdemeanor crimes involving controlled substances should be temporarily prohibited from purchasing or possessing firearms.
It's also interesting to note that people who are mentally ill have some absurdly increased risk of being victims of violent crimes themselves. My word - if that's true - why are we taking away their right to protect themselves.
I think I read somewhere that the common thread among these massshooters were absent fathers; and prior commission of domestic violence.
Also, I would add to the list STOP FEMINIZING BOYS and removing their outlets for physical activity and building things from their education. We absolutely need to make sure that boys have an outlet for their energy.
TLDR: Read this link - and tell me your thoughts.
Gun Violence & Mental Illness: Myths and Evidence-Based Facts
This post was edited on 8/12/19 at 11:29 am
4
Posted on 8/12/19 at 12:14 pm to Wednesday
Studies have been done on the prevalence of violence in various mental illness diagnoses. Below are graphs showing the percent of schizophrenics and bipolar people convicted of violent offenses.
Schizophrenia:
Bipolar disorder:
Source 1: Fazel S, et al. Journal of the American Medical Association. May 20, 2009.
Source 2: Fazel S, et al. Archives of General Psychiatry. September 2010.
Substance abuse greatly increases the risk, so really drugs and alcohol are the problem not mental illness per se.
Schizophrenia:
Bipolar disorder:
Source 1: Fazel S, et al. Journal of the American Medical Association. May 20, 2009.
Source 2: Fazel S, et al. Archives of General Psychiatry. September 2010.
Substance abuse greatly increases the risk, so really drugs and alcohol are the problem not mental illness per se.
Posted on 8/12/19 at 12:31 pm to Wednesday
Interesting. Maybe our lawmakers should put study wit experts in the field and real thought into any new laws being proposed instead of the usual knee jerk reaction
Posted on 8/12/19 at 12:35 pm to Wednesday
Seems pretty simple to me: if someone is being prescribed anti-depressants, they cannot purchase a gun.
The connection is with anti-depressants
The connection is with anti-depressants
Posted on 8/12/19 at 12:47 pm to SlidellCajun
quote:
If someone is being prescribed antidepressants they cannot purchase a gun
Wow. Holy Overreach Batman.
The LAST thing we want to do is prevent people from getting medical attention for a treatable physiological condition by causing them to fear that if they reach out for help they will be on a crazy list.
Antidepressants are some of the most commonly prescribed medications in the US, and I think that anxiety and depression is the second most common reason people go to the doctor besides back pain. And shite, a lot of times those two are linked.
SSRIs have helped countless people to deal with depression, which can be completely and utterly debilitating. I have a friend who’s a mental health counselor and she has a common joke about how maybe they should put them in the water.
I think it’s way less complicated to put a temporary hold on gun purchase and possession on someone recently hospitalized for a psychotic episode, or arrested for methamphetamines than it is to go and look at the medical records to find the 1/3 of the country prescribed antidepressants.
Posted on 8/12/19 at 12:48 pm to AUstar
quote:
Substance abuse greatly increases the risk, so really drugs and alcohol are the problem not mental illness per se.
This guy says this too.
Meth can particularly cause violent episodes
Posted on 8/12/19 at 12:52 pm to Wednesday
Thank you for that reply, Wednesday! I suffer from anxiety. Never made me want to harm anyone, just stay at home 24/7. My meds control that now, so I can function outside my home like when I was younger. I think working the owl shift so many years contributed a lot to the anxiety. But long story short, I own guns, and take medicine.
Posted on 8/12/19 at 12:59 pm to Wednesday
quote:
Meth can particularly cause violent episodes
And even Marijuana if taken by someone with predisposition towards psychosis. It’s rare but real.
Posted on 8/12/19 at 1:02 pm to SlidellCajun
quote:
Seems pretty simple to me: if someone is being prescribed anti-depressants, they cannot purchase a gun.
You serious Clark?
Posted on 8/12/19 at 1:45 pm to Miner
You are so welcome Miner.
I think Depression and Anxiety are degenerative, like arthritis. You just as soon tell someone with arthritis to stop taking Advil.
These are health problems, not Scarlet Letters.
I think Depression and Anxiety are degenerative, like arthritis. You just as soon tell someone with arthritis to stop taking Advil.
These are health problems, not Scarlet Letters.
Posted on 8/12/19 at 1:53 pm to Wednesday
I wonder, what diagnosis could be used to accurately predict a mass shooting?
And, how many of these shooters had received such diagnosis?
IMO, there is no such diagnosis.
There does seem to be a common thread that these shooters have made outright theats of violence similar to the ones that were carried out
So, it seems to me that the focus should be on actions rather than mental condition.
But, that is still subject to people lying their asses off to get someone into the system.
I just hope that there are going to be knowledgeable people to raise these genuine concerns. Right now, "the mentally ill" seems to be the scapegoat.
And, how many of these shooters had received such diagnosis?
IMO, there is no such diagnosis.
There does seem to be a common thread that these shooters have made outright theats of violence similar to the ones that were carried out
So, it seems to me that the focus should be on actions rather than mental condition.
But, that is still subject to people lying their asses off to get someone into the system.
I just hope that there are going to be knowledgeable people to raise these genuine concerns. Right now, "the mentally ill" seems to be the scapegoat.
Posted on 8/12/19 at 1:56 pm to SOKAL
quote:
So, it seems to me that the focus should be on actions rather than mental condition.
Exactly. I think anything else is unconstitutionally discriminatory.
Posted on 8/12/19 at 8:50 pm to Wednesday
Not saying the drug doesn't help those that need them. They do.
They're also highly overprescribed.
There is also an eery silence about the link between people involved in the mass killings and use of anti depressants.
They're also highly overprescribed.
There is also an eery silence about the link between people involved in the mass killings and use of anti depressants.
Posted on 8/12/19 at 9:23 pm to SlidellCajun
My father-in-law’s step brother was a pretty successful duck guide in Northeast Arkansas. He is also diagnosed with a bipolar disorder. He is retired but still hunts.
Taking away a persons guns because mental illness is just wrong. Even felons can be granted the right to own guns if they go before a ATF board and they are not considered a “public safety risk”.
I have recently heard the excuse that a person with epilepsy can’t drive cars why should people with mental illness own guns. The reason is because a person with epilepsy is risk to others when they drive.
The problem we run into is who decides who is a public safety risk? My opinion is that it should be decided by the state where a person resides, but it is still a slippery slope.
Taking away a persons guns because mental illness is just wrong. Even felons can be granted the right to own guns if they go before a ATF board and they are not considered a “public safety risk”.
I have recently heard the excuse that a person with epilepsy can’t drive cars why should people with mental illness own guns. The reason is because a person with epilepsy is risk to others when they drive.
The problem we run into is who decides who is a public safety risk? My opinion is that it should be decided by the state where a person resides, but it is still a slippery slope.
This post was edited on 8/12/19 at 9:29 pm
Posted on 8/12/19 at 9:35 pm to SlidellCajun
quote:
There is also an eery silence about the link between people involved in the mass killings and use of anti depressants.
I have to think we haven’t heard anything about that is because the shooters weren’t taking any. If they had been then you can bet your arse that the media would be all over it.
Hell, maybe if they had been on the medication then they wouldn’t have committed their crimes.
Posted on 8/12/19 at 9:52 pm to SlapahoeTribe
I have to think we haven’t heard anything about that is because the shooters weren’t taking any. If they had been then you can bet your arse that the media would be all over it.
Hell, maybe if they had been on the medication then they wouldn’t have committed their crimes.
_______
Nope. There is no mention because they don't HAVE to report it due to HIPA laws.
If they were to release this info, as they should, I bet everything that the results would be astounding and we'd see a clear connection between these guys taking anti depressants and mass murders. There is some evidence out there if you want to find it. Some of the more notorious mass killings though, have not revealed the connection.... but it's likely there.
Suicide is higher too.
Hell, maybe if they had been on the medication then they wouldn’t have committed their crimes.
_______
Nope. There is no mention because they don't HAVE to report it due to HIPA laws.
If they were to release this info, as they should, I bet everything that the results would be astounding and we'd see a clear connection between these guys taking anti depressants and mass murders. There is some evidence out there if you want to find it. Some of the more notorious mass killings though, have not revealed the connection.... but it's likely there.
Suicide is higher too.
This post was edited on 8/12/19 at 10:05 pm
Posted on 8/12/19 at 10:35 pm to SlapahoeTribe
Top 10 Rx drugs that cause violence.
It is from a study from the Institute for Safe Medication Practices published in the journal PloS One and based on data from the FDA’s Adverse Event Reporting System has identified 31 drugs that are disproportionately linked with reports of violent behavior towards others.
10. Desvenlafaxine (Pristiq)
– An antidepressant that affects serotonin and noradrenaline. The drug is 7.9 times more likely to be associated with violence than other drugs.
9. Venlafaxine (Effexor)
– An antidepressant that treats anxiety disorders. The drug is 8.3 times more likely to be associated with violence than other drugs.
8. Fluvoxamine (Luvox)
– A selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor (SSRI) drug that is 8.4 times more likely to be associated with violence than other drugs.
7. Triazolam (Halcion)
– A benzodiazepine drug for insomnia that is 8.7 times more likely to be associated with violence than other drugs.
6. Atomoxetine (Strattera)
– An ADHD drug that is 9 times more likely to be associated with violence than other drugs.
5. Mefoquine (Lariam)
– A malaria drug that is 9.5 times more likely to be associated with violence than other drugs.
4. Amphetamines
– This general class of ADHD drug is 9.6 times more likely to be associated with violence than other drugs.
3. Paroxetine (Paxil, or Aropax in NZ)
– An SSRI antidepressant drug that is 10.3 times more likely to be associated with violence than other drugs. It is also linked to severe withdrawal symptoms and birth defects.
2. Fluoxetine (Prozac)
– A popular SSRI antidepressant drug that is 10.9 times more likely to be associated with violence than other drugs.
1. Varenicline (Chantix)
– An anti-smoking drug that is a shocking 18 times more likely to be associated with violence than other drugs.
A study from the Institute for Safe Medication Practices published in the journal PloS One and based on data from the FDA’s Adverse Event Reporting System has identified 31 drugs that are disproportionately linked with reports of violent behavior towards others.
It is from a study from the Institute for Safe Medication Practices published in the journal PloS One and based on data from the FDA’s Adverse Event Reporting System has identified 31 drugs that are disproportionately linked with reports of violent behavior towards others.
10. Desvenlafaxine (Pristiq)
– An antidepressant that affects serotonin and noradrenaline. The drug is 7.9 times more likely to be associated with violence than other drugs.
9. Venlafaxine (Effexor)
– An antidepressant that treats anxiety disorders. The drug is 8.3 times more likely to be associated with violence than other drugs.
8. Fluvoxamine (Luvox)
– A selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor (SSRI) drug that is 8.4 times more likely to be associated with violence than other drugs.
7. Triazolam (Halcion)
– A benzodiazepine drug for insomnia that is 8.7 times more likely to be associated with violence than other drugs.
6. Atomoxetine (Strattera)
– An ADHD drug that is 9 times more likely to be associated with violence than other drugs.
5. Mefoquine (Lariam)
– A malaria drug that is 9.5 times more likely to be associated with violence than other drugs.
4. Amphetamines
– This general class of ADHD drug is 9.6 times more likely to be associated with violence than other drugs.
3. Paroxetine (Paxil, or Aropax in NZ)
– An SSRI antidepressant drug that is 10.3 times more likely to be associated with violence than other drugs. It is also linked to severe withdrawal symptoms and birth defects.
2. Fluoxetine (Prozac)
– A popular SSRI antidepressant drug that is 10.9 times more likely to be associated with violence than other drugs.
1. Varenicline (Chantix)
– An anti-smoking drug that is a shocking 18 times more likely to be associated with violence than other drugs.
A study from the Institute for Safe Medication Practices published in the journal PloS One and based on data from the FDA’s Adverse Event Reporting System has identified 31 drugs that are disproportionately linked with reports of violent behavior towards others.
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