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Started By
Message
re: Gun Store Owner Refuses to Transfer Firearm to Antifa Supporter
Posted on 10/25/23 at 2:41 pm to OccamsStubble
Posted on 10/25/23 at 2:41 pm to OccamsStubble
quote:I have a different view on the rights of a business owner. I think he should have the right to decide for himself the persons with whom he will (or will not) choose to do business.
Maybe, at the point the US Government licenses you to be the transfer agent for a legal firearm, BUT tells you "if the firearm is involved in a crime you could have prevented, knowing what you know about the issuee at the time of transfer, YOU can be charged", then you should be free to make judgements about the issuee as to the likelihood of that happening, and react accordingly.
4
Posted on 10/25/23 at 2:42 pm to Antoninus
quote:This should be any private business.
I have a different view on the rights of a business owner. I think he should have the right to decide for himself the persons with whom he will (or will not) choose to do business.
Posted on 10/25/23 at 2:44 pm to Antoninus
FFL, NICS, and the entire process should be blown up.
Posted on 10/25/23 at 2:46 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
Not to me.
Posted on 10/25/23 at 2:46 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:No argument with that premise from me.
FFL, NICS, and the entire process should be blown up.
Posted on 10/25/23 at 2:51 pm to roadGator
You should open a gun store. 
Posted on 10/25/23 at 2:52 pm to Antoninus
Posted on 10/25/23 at 2:52 pm to Tasty Thrill
Why is the OP getting upvoted? If the Antifa douche has no arrests or whatever else he should have gotten his gun
Posted on 10/25/23 at 3:04 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
My neighbor owns one. I’m good.
Though he prints money every time a dem mentions banning guns.
Though he prints money every time a dem mentions banning guns.
Posted on 10/25/23 at 3:08 pm to roadGator
Cool. Maybe he can let you sit in sometime when he refuses to let someone take possession of their firearm.
Posted on 10/25/23 at 3:11 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
I’ll show him this and see what he thinks.
Posted on 10/25/23 at 3:13 pm to roadGator
He should sell tickets. Could be fun to watch some meltdowns.
Posted on 10/25/23 at 3:13 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
Tranny antifa meltdowns in his store wouldn’t end well.
Posted on 10/25/23 at 3:14 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
Simply look it up .....The Gun Store owner and is Employees have a responsibility to judge if the sale will be harmful. SCOTUS will support the reasoning behind the rejection.
If a gun shop owner (or employee responsible for a sale) believes that a customer should not be allowed to obtain a weapon (even if their background check comes back clean), the gun shop owner or employee responsible for the sale is legally allowed to refuse the sale.
Not only are they legally allowed to do so, there are circumstances under which (without even getting to the background check) they are legally obligated to do so, and even to contact relevant authorities.
Every time a gun store processes a background check, someone in that gun store has to sign the 4473. That signature carries legal liabilities, and that individual is basically considered responsible for that 4473 and any sale related to it by the ATF and FBI. (Edited to include relevant information.)
Some people might not like it, but I've been the guy who refused a sale a few times. I refused on grounds such as obvious intoxication. I refused apparent attempts at straw purchases, especially those that looked as obvious as the notion that “water is wet". I had more than one brilliant individual actually open our interaction by telling me that they were a felon. That didn't go so well for them.
The one situation that I'll never forget, however, was one really awkward situation where the customer actually said he intended to use the brand new custom rifle he ordered online for criminal purposes. That's not a direct quote, and he was reported to the relevant authorities. His statement was on camera, with audio, since we had constant audio/video recording of our entire showroom and range (1).
None of those individuals got so far as filling out a 4473, except the last guy who was in the process of doing so when he made the comments that resulted in a “no-sale" situation. (Edited for clarity)
Here's the thing: I'm fine with every refusal I made for two reasons.
If I sold a gun to someone who shouldn't have one, under dubious circumstances, even if their background check came back clean (especially that last guy), the possibility of my gun shop losing our license, or me losing my freedom (as in, serving time in prison) was very real. Beyond that, I've got this moral compass that just won't let me do things that I find, at best, morally questionable.
I like spending time with my wife and kid, and I'd prefer to be a part of their lives, rather than being apart from their lives because I had a moment of stupidity.
Like it or not, I'm perfectly fine with refusing every single sale that I ever refused. If you think I shouldn't have, well we simply aren't going to agree.
Now this makes me wonder if Hunter was straight when he bought his gun.........
If a gun shop owner (or employee responsible for a sale) believes that a customer should not be allowed to obtain a weapon (even if their background check comes back clean), the gun shop owner or employee responsible for the sale is legally allowed to refuse the sale.
Not only are they legally allowed to do so, there are circumstances under which (without even getting to the background check) they are legally obligated to do so, and even to contact relevant authorities.
Every time a gun store processes a background check, someone in that gun store has to sign the 4473. That signature carries legal liabilities, and that individual is basically considered responsible for that 4473 and any sale related to it by the ATF and FBI. (Edited to include relevant information.)
Some people might not like it, but I've been the guy who refused a sale a few times. I refused on grounds such as obvious intoxication. I refused apparent attempts at straw purchases, especially those that looked as obvious as the notion that “water is wet". I had more than one brilliant individual actually open our interaction by telling me that they were a felon. That didn't go so well for them.
The one situation that I'll never forget, however, was one really awkward situation where the customer actually said he intended to use the brand new custom rifle he ordered online for criminal purposes. That's not a direct quote, and he was reported to the relevant authorities. His statement was on camera, with audio, since we had constant audio/video recording of our entire showroom and range (1).
None of those individuals got so far as filling out a 4473, except the last guy who was in the process of doing so when he made the comments that resulted in a “no-sale" situation. (Edited for clarity)
Here's the thing: I'm fine with every refusal I made for two reasons.
If I sold a gun to someone who shouldn't have one, under dubious circumstances, even if their background check came back clean (especially that last guy), the possibility of my gun shop losing our license, or me losing my freedom (as in, serving time in prison) was very real. Beyond that, I've got this moral compass that just won't let me do things that I find, at best, morally questionable.
I like spending time with my wife and kid, and I'd prefer to be a part of their lives, rather than being apart from their lives because I had a moment of stupidity.
Like it or not, I'm perfectly fine with refusing every single sale that I ever refused. If you think I shouldn't have, well we simply aren't going to agree.
Now this makes me wonder if Hunter was straight when he bought his gun.........
Posted on 10/25/23 at 3:15 pm to Antoninus
quote:
quote:
Maybe, at the point the US Government licenses you to be the transfer agent for a legal firearm, BUT tells you "if the firearm is involved in a crime you could have prevented, knowing what you know about the issuee at the time of transfer, YOU can be charged", then you should be free to make judgements about the issuee as to the likelihood of that happening, and react accordingly.
I have a different view on the rights of a business owner. I think he should have the right to decide for himself the persons with whom he will (or will not) choose to do business.
i don't know how you'd see these two thoughts as different views
This post was edited on 10/25/23 at 3:16 pm
Posted on 10/25/23 at 3:17 pm to roadGator
quote:
Tranny antifa meltdowns in his store wouldn’t end well.
Even better.
Posted on 10/25/23 at 3:18 pm to bluedragon
quote:
If I sold a gun to someone who shouldn't have one, under dubious circumstances, even if their background check came back clean (especially that last guy), the possibility of my gun shop losing our license, or me losing my freedom (as in, serving time in prison) was very real.
Found the problem.
Posted on 10/25/23 at 3:49 pm to Lynxrufus2012
quote:
Bartenders can refuse to serve drunks. The shop owner decided he didn’t want to risk being sued providing a firearm to an insane person.
Right... after many a mass shooting people call to hold the gun store responsible... you make a good point here..
Posted on 10/25/23 at 6:04 pm to AUstar
quote:
I am not in that business, but I would imagine gun store owners are allowed to refuse sales to "suspicious people" even if they pass background checks.
Being a member of a terrorist organization would certainly rise to the level of suspicious.
I'm not a licensed dealer, either. I do believe that all licensed firearm dealers must also conduct business while complying with "due diligence" and "willful ignorance" principles just as a paid tax preparer is required to do. Would appreciate hearing from any FFL dealer as to this.
Posted on 10/25/23 at 6:08 pm to Damone
quote:
constitutional rights
Idiot.
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