re: Grenell joins RNC as senior adviser focused on LGBT voter outreach

quote:

---

Well see, now you're moving the goal posts to suit your opinion.

---

I’m not.

quote:

---

Above, you were critical of others who view being gay as morally fine, and (ostensibly) fair game for you to criticize them. NOW, you're citing "decree of God" which dictates homosexual acts being sinful.

---

That isn’t moving the goal posts at all. I was responding to a specific criticism about judging others or sins as simply my opinion. I stated that it isn’t merely an opinion but a moral decree. That doesn’t contradict or change my statement about others believing homosexuality is morally fine as a justification for my condemnation of the practice.

quote:

---

So which applies to you: intolerance of others for being gay, or intolerance of gay acts? Or both?

---

Intolerance of gay acts.

quote:

---

That's a nifty way to sidestep the question. I didn't ask if the critiques of you were justified nor not, I asked how you like it when others criticize you for something you cannot change about yourself.

---

I was getting to the heart of your argument, not sidestepping your question.

The logical conclusion I was to draw from the question was that if I don’t like others judging me, I shouldn’t judge/condemn others. It is a false equivalency unless the thing I’m being judged for is a sin against God.

My liking or not liking criticism is also beside the point. People don’t like to be told they have cancer but they have to hear it before they can start getting treatment for it. Likewise, being told we are sinners that need to repent is not pleasant, yet it is necessary for people to realize they need salvation in Jesus Christ.

quote:

---

If this applies to everyone, there's really no reason for you to state it. Unless you have an issue with the man for being gay. Which is your right, but you should at least be honest that you don't like gay people instead of acting sanctimonious and self-righteous.

---

It does apply to all people and I mention it in all sorts of contexts because not everyone knows it or has heard it and yet all people need to hear it.

I have an issue with his unrepentant homosexuality and since that was a topic of this discussion that was expressly called out, I also mentioned it. If the topic were Bill Clinton’s infidelity, Nancy Pelosi’s compulsive lying, or any of the myriad of sins that people commit, I would have addressed them similarly.

I love people enough to not want them to die in their sins. I don’t have to love their sins, though. And I have my own sins to repent of constantly, but my sins—like the sins of others—are condemned as such by God, regardless of how I feel about them, so all people need to repent, including myself.

quote:

---

Still waiting

---

You must be new to this website.

quote:

---

I’m an Orthodox Christian and I have no problem accepting gays. We’ve had known gays come to our church many times.

---

I don’t mean Orthodox (like Greek Orthodox), I mean orthodox like historical, biblical Christianity in a general sense. Historically, the Church has condemned homosexual sin as something to be repented of.

I’m fine with accepting homosexuals into our midst at church for sharing the gospel, but they are not to be made members of the local body if they are living in unrepentant sin. That goes for any public sin.

Someone who doesn’t think that their adultery, for instance, is not something they should repent of, is not to be welcomed as a brother in Christ, as they are unrepentant. They should have the gospel preached to them and be treated in love as we are to treat all people, including unbelievers, but they are not to given the sacraments and to be added to the visible body of Christ.

quote:

---

but they are not to be made members of the local body if they are living in unrepentant sin. That goes for any public sin.

---

How do you know they don’t repent everyday? You sin probably everyday or near about but apparently still go to church

quote:

---

How do you know they don’t repent everyday? You sin probably everyday or near about but apparently still go to church

---

To become a member of a local body, the church government should be assessing the profession of faith of the persons wanting to join. If a person says they are a homosexual actively living in sin with another person (homosexual sex) then they are to be confronted with that since it is apparent they aren’t repentant.

Repentance isn’t simply telling God you are sorry; it is actively living to stop sinning and start living in obedience. I repent of the same sins all the time, but the point is that it is a godly sorrow for sin and a desire to obey. If you take no actions to confront your sin, you aren’t really repenting.

We really need to have a religion board so the nuts can all congregate in one area and not clutter other boards with their nonsense. There is no reason a thread about LGBT voter out reach should be derailed and turned into a religious debate about the morality of two consenting adults being in a relationship.

quote:

---

It is a brand of moral decree to which you subscribe. That does not make it absolute, and and it does not make it right.

---

It is a brand of moral decree that has been recognized as scripturally correct as a decree from God for thousands of years. This isn’t some personal opinion that is just one among many that can be deduced from the subject from the scriptures. It is right because God hath said.

quote:

---

So then you misspoke earlier when you said:

quote:

---

Because some here seem to think that being gay is morally fine and that we shouldn’t criticize it.

---

Because this means you feel you have the right to criticize one for being gay, which is in-congruent with your statement that you're only intolerant of gay acts (as it pertains to the current subject matter).

---

I’m speaking with the Bible in mind. In that context, a homosexual is one who practices homosexuality. It isn’t merely a person who struggles with homosexual lust but a person who acts on that lust and doesn’t repent. My statements are consistent with that understanding. In addition, within the common vernacular, “being gay” is not just about the feelings but is also associated with the action of homosexual sexual intercourse.

quote:

---

Again, you're assuming that the brand of God you believe in and the scriptures you're using to prop up your opinion are absolute and true. They very well may not be, which undermines your justification of judging others completely.

---

Of course I assume them to be true and absolute. If I didn’t, there would be no point in mentioning them.

That said, if the Bible isn’t true and the Biblical God doesn’t exist then there cannot be objective morality and all moral standards would be nothing more than opinions with none being more right or wrong than any other.

quote:

---

This was actually not the topic of discussion; it was about the RNC's efforts to focus on LGBT outreach. You came in decrying the need for Grenell to repent, did you not?

---

I did. The focus was about both Grenell’s homosexuality and the outreach to other homosexuals. The intent was to show that the GOP is OK with homosexuals. Other comments in this thread spoke to homosexuality being OK and that Republicans need to accept it. That is the context of my comments about it being sinful and repentance being needed. I don’t think I was far off-base compared to the topic at hand. I even said I appreciate his politics.

quote:

---

The purpose of this thread was to discuss the ways the RNC is trying to bring LGBT voters into the conservative fold, not how you think they should repent according to your scripture.

---

Threads go in different directions all the time. At least my comments were directly related to the subject of homosexuality and it’s acceptance in politics and culture.

quote:

---

But like the many gays who are vocal about their distaste of your life choices, you are doing the same thing, the only difference is you're hiding your bigotry behind scripture. You're both wrong.

---

Actually, the primary difference is that I have an objective moral framework (God’s holy character) that dictates what is right and wrong. Clearly you are calling me a bigot in a disdainful way, so what is the basis for your moral condemnation? What is your basis for saying I am wrong?

quote:

---

We really need to have a religion board so the nuts can all congregate in one area and not clutter other boards with their nonsense. There is no reason a thread about LGBT voter out reach should be derailed and turned into a religious debate about the morality of two consenting adults being in a relationship.

---

I’d be in favor of a religious board, but morality and religion are fairly intertwined and it is hard to talk about politics in a vacuum outside of morality. Even your statement here is morally charged.