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For WWII buffs ... FDR and holocaust
Posted on 1/25/14 at 3:59 pm
Posted on 1/25/14 at 3:59 pm
I listened to a 1 hour lecture on book TV re: Jews and FDR.
Historian was interesting but a horrible public speaker. Short story:
FDR knew that the Jews were getting exterminated in 1942. But the reason he would not denounce it publicly was because of the US/British invasion of Northern Africa.
He didn't want to piss off the Muslims who were being told by the Germans that US involvement in WWII was being driven by the hated Jews.
The historian also blamed the French.
Your thoughts?
Historian was interesting but a horrible public speaker. Short story:
FDR knew that the Jews were getting exterminated in 1942. But the reason he would not denounce it publicly was because of the US/British invasion of Northern Africa.
He didn't want to piss off the Muslims who were being told by the Germans that US involvement in WWII was being driven by the hated Jews.
The historian also blamed the French.
Your thoughts?
This post was edited on 1/25/14 at 4:01 pm
14
Posted on 1/25/14 at 4:05 pm to Zach
Delicate situation, but properly played in terms of strategy. Would have been a different can of worms completely had the Muslim countries banded together viewing it as a threat from America that America stood with the Jews. Who knows what would have happened?
Posted on 1/25/14 at 4:05 pm to Zach
Well, in FDR's defense we were in an existential struggle and had to pick our battles out of necessity. To denounce it would have likely changed little. It's also not like we needed more justification to fight, right?
Posted on 1/25/14 at 4:06 pm to Zach
Well, one question I guess is how would north Africa have reacted if they knew Israel was going to be created?
Posted on 1/25/14 at 4:08 pm to Lsupimp
quote:
It's also not like we needed more justification to fight, right?
It wasn't a justification for US to enter the war. We were in it. The Jews wanted FDR to make a speech denouncing it to get countries under Nazi influence to stop deporting Jews to concentration camps.
Posted on 1/25/14 at 4:10 pm to Zach
No I understand that. I just mean we were already "all in".
Posted on 1/25/14 at 4:10 pm to weagle99
quote:
Well, one question I guess is how would north Africa have reacted if they knew Israel was going to be created?
Apparently, the only fear of a Jewish state was Palestine. But the propaganda by the Germans was that if the allies beat them in North Africa, the Jews would have a state in Egypt. I've never heard of that before.
Posted on 1/25/14 at 4:20 pm to Zach
Honest question: what would the muslims have done? Were they still throwing rocks from horseback?
I'm serious.
I'm serious.
Posted on 1/25/14 at 4:28 pm to Honest Tune
quote:
Honest question: what would the muslims have done? Were they still throwing rocks from horseback?
Hey, Lawrence of Arabia is WWI stuff.
There were many Muslim nations and tribes that had heavy guns in North Africa in 1942. There were also French outposts who hated the British (and the US was coming in with the British) whom the French didn't like.
Posted on 1/25/14 at 4:29 pm to Zach
So they had some organization and heavy artillery. Wasn't sure how "unified" they were at the time.
Great movie btw.
Great movie btw.
Posted on 1/25/14 at 4:31 pm to Zach
They all knew and could've bombed the tracks but didn't
For all the talk of racism and how sophisticated Europe is, it's still very anti Semitic
Bottom line: they didn't care and history has wrongfully made them out to be liberators
For all the talk of racism and how sophisticated Europe is, it's still very anti Semitic
Bottom line: they didn't care and history has wrongfully made them out to be liberators
Posted on 1/25/14 at 4:33 pm to Honest Tune
It was a great movie.
My favorite line is when he brings the Arab boy into the officer's club after they are dying of thirst crossing the dessert:
"He likes your lemonade."
My favorite line is when he brings the Arab boy into the officer's club after they are dying of thirst crossing the dessert:
"He likes your lemonade."
Posted on 1/25/14 at 4:36 pm to DelU249
quote:
For all the talk of racism and how sophisticated Europe is, it's still very anti Semitic, Islamophobic, and racist.
Posted on 1/25/14 at 4:36 pm to ohiovol
quote:
For all the talk of racism and how sophisticated Europe is, it's still very anti Semitic, Islamophobic, and racist.
Posted on 1/25/14 at 4:37 pm to Zach
Posted on 1/25/14 at 4:38 pm to DelU249
quote:
They all knew and could've bombed the tracks but didn't
Who could have bombed what tracks?
Posted on 1/25/14 at 4:45 pm to Zach
I'd actually argue BOTH:
quote:
For all the talk of racism and how sophisticated Europe is, it's still very anti Semitic, Islamophobic, and racist.
quote:
For all the talk of racism and how sophisticated Europe is, it's still very anti Semitic, Islamic, and racist.
Posted on 1/25/14 at 4:48 pm to Zach
Nazis couldn't have relocated the Jews in such numbers without the train system
Bomb the tracks, no mass transportation of Jews, millions saved
Bomb the tracks, no mass transportation of Jews, millions saved
Posted on 1/25/14 at 4:49 pm to Zach
Are there not a majority historians who refute this thesis? The general historical consensus I've always understood was that the Allied powers were not aware of a systematic extermination program. That Jews were being rounded up and concentrated, yes, but not being systematically liquidated. It would have been a propaganda gold mine had they been aware and I believe it would have been exploited as such. There were rumors that came out of Europe but they were generally disbelieved and were unproven. The Allies were wary of getting burned with faux atrocity stories such as came out of the First World War.
Air reconnaissance photos were taken of Auschwitz during the war and showed no signs of systematic slaughter. I didn't see the program in question of course but I'd like to know what new information the author claims to be citing that indicates that either FDR or Churchill were aware of such atrocities.
Air reconnaissance photos were taken of Auschwitz during the war and showed no signs of systematic slaughter. I didn't see the program in question of course but I'd like to know what new information the author claims to be citing that indicates that either FDR or Churchill were aware of such atrocities.
Posted on 1/25/14 at 4:50 pm to DelU249
quote:
Nazis couldn't have relocated the Jews in such numbers without the train system
Bomb the tracks, no mass transportation of Jews, millions saved
You have zero understanding of the strategic complexities of the Second World War. Zero.
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