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re: FCC Chairman Ajit Pai: Why He's Rejecting Net Neutrality

Posted on 11/22/17 at 12:57 pm to
Posted by HeyHeyHogsAllTheWay
Member since Feb 2017
12458 posts
Posted on 11/22/17 at 12:57 pm to
quote:

it is part of the future but not the future of a permanent internet solution.


In rural areas it certainly will be. I am in the country but not so far out that cable internet isn't avaliable to me, but I have friends who are, Cox cable (the only internet provider around here) has stated that they have no intentions of ever running cable out there. So right now, their choices are DSL , wireless, or satelite internet.

The wireless provider actually uses Cox as THEIR provider and allows their users to piggyback off that system. The speeds aren't bad, but nowhere close to what I can get from Cox myself.

For THOSE kind of customers , wireless IS the future.

Posted by StraightCashHomey21
Aberdeen,NC
Member since Jul 2009
126745 posts
Posted on 11/22/17 at 12:59 pm to
quote:

Oh really So if BMW suddenly jacks up it's price up such that the 3 Series was $95,000 you still wouldn't consider the Kia in its place This is what I'm talking about dude. Stick with the tech conversation because every time you drift over into business or economics things go to shite


The two are not even the same quality of car. If BMW jacks up its price, you don't think their direct competitors like Audi or Benz will try to under cut them.

Its pretty much what happens when ISPs are forced the change their prices and ditch data caps. When a rival ISP is able to enters their area.
Posted by CorporateTiger
Member since Aug 2014
10700 posts
Posted on 11/22/17 at 1:00 pm to
quote:

of course it is. Customers make trade-offs all the time. There is absolutely a price point at which your desire to park in tiny spaces will cease to exist for buying a moped


I mean the only reason that someone who buys a moped to commute in Asian city and to park his “vehicle” in an apartment building hallway would buy a BMW is so that he can go resell it for a profit.

There are some people who simply can’t ytilize a BMW.

quote:

and there is absolutely a price point at which choosing a moped Will trump your desire to go 100 miles an hour



There is no price point in which I would buy a moped except to go sell it for a profit. The Moped simply doesn’t meet my needs in a commuter vehicle. Therefore I won’t buy one for that purpose.

quote:

The two products set floors and ceilings for each other and they absolutely compete no matter how many scenarios you try to devise saying they won't



For a lot of people, maybe most people sure the two compete. I have no problems acknowledging this. I’m just making a point that there is no one single consumer by which you can judge these things. Each person’s needs are different, and two things that might be competitors to me aren’t to you.
Posted by CorporateTiger
Member since Aug 2014
10700 posts
Posted on 11/22/17 at 1:02 pm to
quote:


The wireless revolution will offer better integration which consumers will prefer


I’m not saying that wireless won’t be competitive in the future. It will capture a bigger market share moving forward. No doubt.

What that timeline is? Hard to say.

I can tell you that all acces won’t be through wireless (the thing you said I disagreed with) anyime soon.
Posted by RogerTheShrubber
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
298594 posts
Posted on 11/22/17 at 1:04 pm to
quote:

For a lot of people, maybe most people sure the two compete. I have no problems acknowledging this. I’m just making a point that there is no one single consumer by which you can judge these things. Each person’s needs are different, and two things that might be competitors to me aren’t to you.


Well this is true, some people still have dial up and are happy with it. However the future is wireless and companies like Comcast and att will compete with Verizon for the future of wireless. It doesn't mean 100% compliance, but I'm positive it will be for the average American home.

Again, mobile technology will approach the fastest wired speeds consumers can now get and it will be a free for all
Posted by Tigerdev
Member since Feb 2013
12287 posts
Posted on 11/22/17 at 1:12 pm to
Wireless speed isn't the primary reason hard lines are superior. For applications requiring near real time comms wireless will remain inferior for the vastly foreseeable future.

The problem is physics. Wireless signals by their very nature and the nature of the physical world share space with far too many environmental variables for reliable near real time comms. Thick walls, floors, electrical interference, noise, propagation delay...

You cant compare wireless to a dedicated physical line transmiting nothing but standard voltages to be interpreted as zeros and ones...
Posted by ShortyRob
Member since Oct 2008
82116 posts
Posted on 11/22/17 at 1:12 pm to
quote:

The two are not even the same quality of car.
Irrelevant, they're competitors.

quote:

If BMW jacks up its price, you don't think their direct competitors like Audi or Benz will try to under cut them.
Oh for frick's sake. You want me to do the FULL market comparison.

OK. If all high end car prices start riding up.........at SOME point, the Kia becomes a viable alternative even for the people who want high end cars.

And, if Kia starts to lose cost control, at some point, the people looking for bargains will say "frick it, I'm buying a high end car".
Posted by RogerTheShrubber
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
298594 posts
Posted on 11/22/17 at 1:14 pm to
quote:

Wireless speed isn't the primary reason hard lines are superior. For applications requiring near real time comms wireless will remain inferior for the vastly foreseeable future.


I don't expect 100% compliance however for the home user it will be wireless
Posted by ShortyRob
Member since Oct 2008
82116 posts
Posted on 11/22/17 at 1:15 pm to
quote:

I mean the only reason that someone who buys a moped to commute in Asian city and to park his “vehicle” in an apartment building hallway would buy a BMW is so that he can go resell it for a profit.
LOL. OK.

quote:

re are some people who simply can’t ytilize a BMW.
The fact that SOME customers will never consider something a competitor does not negate that it absolutely is a competitor.

I mean, fish is a competitor to steak. The fact some people refuse to eat fish under any circumstances doesn't change that. The fact that some people are allergic to seafood doesn't change that.

You see. You tech guys really need to brush up on your business.

quote:

There is no price point in which I would buy a moped except to go sell it for a profit. The Moped simply doesn’t meet my needs in a commuter vehicle. Therefore I won’t buy one for that purpose.
LOL. OK. You are the exception to all of economics. If the cheapest car on the planet was 100K.......and you needed trans faster than your feet........you'd still say "frick that moped".
Posted by ShortyRob
Member since Oct 2008
82116 posts
Posted on 11/22/17 at 1:17 pm to
quote:

Wireless speed isn't the primary reason hard lines are superior. For applications requiring near real time comms wireless will remain inferior for the vastly foreseeable future. I don't expect 100% compliance however for the home user it will be wireless


It's fascinating. They genuinely seem to think that if a product can't COMPLETELY supplant another product, then it isn't "competing" with it.

Talk about a complete failure of the education system!
Posted by Centinel
Idaho
Member since Sep 2016
45911 posts
Posted on 11/22/17 at 1:18 pm to
quote:

You see. You tech guys really need to brush up on your business.



This is a good example of why many highly technical people bomb the hell out of the CISSP exam.

They think solely of the technical, and not the business impact. Or in our case the market ISPs are competing in.
This post was edited on 11/22/17 at 1:19 pm
Posted by RogerTheShrubber
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
298594 posts
Posted on 11/22/17 at 1:19 pm to
quote:

It's fascinating. They genuinely seem to think that if a product can't COMPLETELY supplant another product, then it isn't "competing" with it.


Yep. I'll bet they don't apply those same standards everywhere.

I'm exited about the prospects. The next 10-15 years are going to be fun.
Posted by CorporateTiger
Member since Aug 2014
10700 posts
Posted on 11/22/17 at 1:22 pm to
quote:

You see. You tech guys really need to brush up on your business.



I haven’t argued these two aren’t generally competitors. In fact that was the premise I responded with.

Also not really a tech guy, I’m much closer to a business guy than a tech guy.

quote:

LOL. OK. You are the exception to all of economics. If the cheapest car on the planet was 100K.......and you needed trans faster than your feet........you'd still say "frick that moped".



I like how you make up a completely ludicrous scenario. The point is the breadth of competition varies greatly depending on the circumstances of the person.

That holds true for internet, for cars, for power, etc etc

I’m not sure what you want to prove here?
Posted by ShortyRob
Member since Oct 2008
82116 posts
Posted on 11/22/17 at 1:23 pm to
quote:

Yep. I'll bet they don't apply those same standards everywhere. I'm exited about the prospects. The next 10-15 years are going to be fun.
This is why I laugh at the questions that are something like, "oh yeah, well what do YOU think will happen?"

Dude. If I know nothing else, I know that in 10 years, I'm going to be bumping into shite no one is even WRITING about today and if they are.........no one is listening.
Posted by RogerTheShrubber
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
298594 posts
Posted on 11/22/17 at 1:24 pm to
quote:

quote:

The wireless revolution will offer better integration which consumers will prefer


I’m not saying that wireless won’t be competitive in the future. It will capture a bigger market share moving forward. No doubt.

What that timeline is? Hard to say.

I can tell you that all acces won’t be through wireless (the thing you said I disagreed with) anyime soon.



Someday it will be. We're talking about the average consumer here and it will absolutely be the norm very soon.

In the meantime, current mobile technology will push traditional internet providers to adapt to new technology. It's already happening
Posted by LSURussian
Member since Feb 2005
134829 posts
Posted on 11/22/17 at 1:24 pm to
I'm beginning to understand your reluctance to NN being ditched.

You said you easily use 1 TB/month and you want to pay the same amount each month as the other poster who said he only uses 400 GB/month.

So you want him to subsidize your more than double monthly usage.

Just admit you're a socialist and move on......
Posted by CorporateTiger
Member since Aug 2014
10700 posts
Posted on 11/22/17 at 1:25 pm to
quote:

Someday it will be. We're talking about the average consumer here and it will absolutely be the norm very soon.


I’m more bearish about adoption rates than you, but we are generally in agreement that it will be a growing market sector.

I just think the assertion that soon all internet access will be wireless is completely wrong. That was what I took issue with.
Posted by Tigerdev
Member since Feb 2013
12287 posts
Posted on 11/22/17 at 1:26 pm to
quote:

for the home user it will be wireless
For the casual home user. If you play video games or stream live high resolution video I am skeptical.
Posted by ShortyRob
Member since Oct 2008
82116 posts
Posted on 11/22/17 at 1:27 pm to
quote:

Someday it will be. We're talking about the average consumer here and it will absolutely be the norm very soon. In the meantime, current mobile technology will push traditional internet providers to adapt to new technology. It's already happening


I'll talk a tech product where the inferior product supplanted the superior one.

Today's cell phones have obliterated the low to mid range camera market. And, while today's cell phones high high megapixel levels, they are complete shadows of what real cameras can do.

Also. Today's cell phones/low end head phones have obliterated the market for really good home stereo equipment.

People in 2017 are literally CHOOSING to listen to music in lower fidelity than I used to listen to it in 1990. Even when they ditch the headphones, most of them are listening on Bluetooth speakers I could have considered complete trash 20 years ago.
Posted by StraightCashHomey21
Aberdeen,NC
Member since Jul 2009
126745 posts
Posted on 11/22/17 at 1:28 pm to
quote:


FCC Chairman Ajit Pai: Why He's Rejecting Net Neutrality
I'm beginning to understand your reluctance to NN being ditched.

You said you easily use 1 TB/month and you want to pay the same amount each month as the other poster who said he only uses 400 GB/month.

So you want him to subsidize your more than double monthly usage.

Just admit you're a socialist and move on......


1 TB isn’t a lot of data for one

And with quality of content going up it really won’t be tons of data. He uses less data bc he has cable tv, we don’t have cable and use streaming platforms.

Data caps are bullshite
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