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re: Does anybody really care about these statues?

Posted on 8/16/17 at 5:01 pm to
Posted by Udvarnoky
Member since May 2011
741 posts
Posted on 8/16/17 at 5:01 pm to
quote:

but i'm against the erasing of history, monuments, etc



It's not erasure of anything. The statues aren't going into an incinerator, and Germany didn't forget who Hitler was just because he isn't proudly displayed in front of court houses.
Posted by RTRinTampa
Central FL
Member since Jan 2013
5532 posts
Posted on 8/16/17 at 5:02 pm to
quote:

If the biggest thing you have to complain about in your life are century-old statues you're probably doing alright in life

No, it most likely means your priorities are all fricked up!
Posted by Tiger Prawn
Member since Dec 2016
25087 posts
Posted on 8/16/17 at 5:04 pm to
quote:

They sent innocent soldiers to fight and die on their traitorous behalf... That count?


So did George Washington. Its soldiers and war. Not picking up elderly, women, and children and shipping them off to concentration camps like the Nazi's.

Does Union forces torching southern cities during the War of Northern Aggression count?
Posted by KiwiHead
Auckland, NZ
Member since Jul 2014
35807 posts
Posted on 8/16/17 at 5:05 pm to
The real reason that many of those statues were built was as an in your face to the Northerners and the power brokers from NYC, Boston and Chicago after the Civil War.....it was never really about White Supremacy per se, it was a passive aggressive act of defiance against the victors.


quote:

I've said many times that this is only the beginning. Statues of Jefferson and Washington are going to be targeted soon.


Al "the Brooklyn Tax Dodger" Sharpton has already started this on Jefferson. The Jefferson Memorial is, IMHO the nicest of the DC Memorials. Make book that they ratchet up on Andrew Jackson in both NOLA and DC.....I could not have cared about Lee and Davis in NOLA, the two men as individuals had very little connection to NOLA but if not for Jackson, the British would have burned the place to the ground. Jackson may have been a bastard overall, but in NOLA he's a damned hero.
Posted by RogerTheShrubber
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
295457 posts
Posted on 8/16/17 at 5:06 pm to
quote:

Why? They were slave owning traitors to their country.


Since the Indians fought the federal government and lost, I think we need to stop work on the sitting bull monument immediately
Posted by rich4pres
Knoxville
Member since Dec 2016
11017 posts
Posted on 8/16/17 at 5:07 pm to
I don't think it's the statues that people care about, it is the slippery slope that it exposes. Seriously, what is next? I'm always on the side of more freedom, not less.
Posted by Freauxzen
Washington
Member since Feb 2006
38406 posts
Posted on 8/16/17 at 5:09 pm to
quote:

I think the thing that bothers me the most is the way in which they change the meanings of these monuments to fit their narrative. It gives them the foot in the door that they need to tear down anything they deem offensive,


Ding ding ding.

The statues are ending up as the physical representation of a battle over language, ideas, freedom....really big things. Of course no one cares about "the statues" or no rational folks at least. Put them in the museum somewhere, who cares? But the how, and the why of this whole thing? That's disturbing, and it should disturb normal people.
Posted by RogerTheShrubber
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
295457 posts
Posted on 8/16/17 at 5:11 pm to
quote:

don't think it's the statues that people care about,


It's the stupidity to believe there is something nefarious amount a statue
Posted by stinkdawg
Savannah, smoking by the gas cans
Member since Aug 2014
4072 posts
Posted on 8/16/17 at 5:12 pm to
The crazy foot soldiers that are attacking civil war statutes and tearing them down have a lot in common with the Taliban.
The more you know.
Posted by EZE Tiger Fan
Member since Jul 2004
55426 posts
Posted on 8/16/17 at 5:12 pm to
It isn't "these" statues I care about...

It is the "other" "statues" that are next. Those are the ones I care about.
Posted by Udvarnoky
Member since May 2011
741 posts
Posted on 8/16/17 at 5:13 pm to
I don't get this whole slippery slope argument of "Is Jefferson next?!" Pointing out that Jefferson owned slaves is not a gotcha. America is a country of ideals, and it's implicitly those ideals we celebrate when we put its figures on a pedestal. We see the atrocities in our history as examples of us falling short of those ideals. But you can't call slavery a shortcoming of the Confederacy's ideals. It was the ideal, as any intellectually honest person who has actually read its constitution knows.
This post was edited on 8/16/17 at 5:14 pm
Posted by Pettifogger
I don't really care, Margaret
Member since Feb 2012
85873 posts
Posted on 8/16/17 at 5:17 pm to
quote:

I don't get this whole slippery slope argument of "Is Jefferson next?!" Pointing out that Jefferson owned slaves is not a gotcha. America is a country of ideals, and it's implicitly those ideals we celebrate when we put its figures on a pedestal. We see the atrocities in our history as examples of us falling short of those ideals. But you can't call slavery a shortcoming of the Confederacy's ideals. It was the ideal, as any intellectually honest person who has actually read its constitution knows.



Jefferson profited mightily from slavery, giving him the freedom to participate in government, and he arguably raped a slave and fathered a child. There will be plenty of ammunition.

You're looking it at from the reasoned position of "the framers did something good, why would anyone go after them." That's the wrong perspective IMO. People who are physically tearing down statutes don't give a shite about good or evil. They want revolution. They don't give a shite about the "ideals" of America now, so why would they give a shite about the antiquated ideals Jefferson celebrated?
Posted by mauser
Orange Beach
Member since Nov 2008
26054 posts
Posted on 8/16/17 at 5:18 pm to
I care. I have ancestors that fought. I take pride in that and I have pride the leaders and their flag.

Posted by 257WBY
Member since Feb 2014
7194 posts
Posted on 8/16/17 at 5:20 pm to
This isn't about statues. It's about destroying Western Civilization and the White Race.
I can certainly see why some could be offended by symbols of the CSA, but it won't end there.
Posted by Pettifogger
I don't really care, Margaret
Member since Feb 2012
85873 posts
Posted on 8/16/17 at 5:20 pm to
quote:

This isn't about statues. It's about destroying Western Civilization and the White Race.



Sorry don't buy "white genocide" dude
Posted by EZE Tiger Fan
Member since Jul 2004
55426 posts
Posted on 8/16/17 at 5:21 pm to
quote:

It was the ideal, as any intellectually honest person who has actually read its constitution knows.



Just like any intellectually honest person who understands the ideals of today's Progs knows exactly where all this is headed.
Posted by KiwiHead
Auckland, NZ
Member since Jul 2014
35807 posts
Posted on 8/16/17 at 5:33 pm to
quote:

America is a country of ideals, and it's implicitly those ideals we celebrate when we put its figures on a pedestal.


This is where you and I differ. America is not an idea, it's a place. The only ideal really in America is about making a buck. The country was founded on the premise that you should keep what you earn. All the crap about Taxation without Representation is bogus.

We think ourselves so idealistic....that's a meme that was foistered by late 19h century Progressives like John Dewey. Overall it's a cover story.

quote:

I don't get this whole slippery slope argument of "Is Jefferson next?!"


You will, naive padawan, you will!!!!!
This post was edited on 8/16/17 at 5:34 pm
Posted by AU86
Member since Aug 2009
26198 posts
Posted on 8/16/17 at 5:48 pm to
99% of the Confederate monuments were erected to recognize and memorialize the soldiers that fought and served in the war. The Soldiers. My argument is this bunch has a broader agenda than just erasing the Confederate monuments. After they get them, they will go after the founders, then they will go after anyone that they claim to be racists (Ex. Teddy Roosevelt). Then they will start replacing them with leftist symbols/icons. Then start re-educating the youth that those leftist symbols/icons are what made America great. Those are the people you should look up to. Every nation that has fallen to communism, the same thing happens almost immediately. Soviet Union, Vietnam, China, Zimbabwe. It happened there. This is part of their plan to re-educate to achieve their ultimate goal of redistribution of power and wealth. There was a guess on Tucker last night that was talking about this exact thing.
Posted by Udvarnoky
Member since May 2011
741 posts
Posted on 8/18/17 at 11:51 am to
quote:

99% of the Confederate monuments were erected to recognize and memorialize the soldiers that fought and served in the war. The Soldiers.


On what do you base your confidence in this intention? The confederate monuments in question were commissioned en masse during the Jim Crow era, decades after the war, in the midst of an organized movement to cast the confederacy in a whitewashed light. The earliest memorials, the ones most likely to have been in dedication to soldiers, were erected in cemeteries and not outside of courthouses.
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