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re: Do you believe in human dignity?

Posted on 11/29/23 at 3:44 pm to
Posted by Robin Masters
Birmingham
Member since Jul 2010
35862 posts
Posted on 11/29/23 at 3:44 pm to
quote:

So... EVERYONE has same "amount" of dignity? Charles Manson and Billy Graham have the same "amount" of dignity? That is your contention


You know as well as I do that a good progressive would defend CM 1000x per day before saying a positive thing about a right wing figure like BG.

Posted by hashtag
Comfy, AF
Member since Aug 2005
33532 posts
Posted on 11/29/23 at 6:42 pm to
quote:

I can recognize that my neighbor was created in God's divine image
the Bible doesn't say that you, I, or our neighbors were created in God's image. It says that God created man, male and female, in His image, pre-fall.

Now, we are born with sin natures, sons of Adam, opposed to God. We are all undeserving of dignity, deserving only wrath and punishment for our sin.

We aren't to treat people with dignity because there is something inherently good or deserving in people. We're to treat them that way because God commanded it in His Word, not because anyone deserves it or not.
This post was edited on 11/29/23 at 6:43 pm
Posted by Godfather1
What WAS St George, Louisiana
Member since Oct 2006
88929 posts
Posted on 11/29/23 at 6:53 pm to
quote:

By the Catholic Church?


Ah, so you’re pro-life.
Posted by bayoubengals88
LA
Member since Sep 2007
24534 posts
Posted on 11/29/23 at 7:23 pm to
quote:

4cubbies
It sounds like you could have fun discovering the more intellectual (and interesting) side of Protestantism.

Unless Bonhoeffer, Niebuhr, Barth, Buechner, and Martin Luther King Jr. rejected the notion of human dignity.

Read George Marsden and learn a lot.
Posted by 4cubbies
Member since Sep 2008
61098 posts
Posted on 11/29/23 at 8:08 pm to
quote:

Because you can't "Work" your way into heaven.
faith +works gets you to heaven.

Someone with faith would naturally do go good works.
Posted by 4cubbies
Member since Sep 2008
61098 posts
Posted on 11/29/23 at 8:17 pm to
quote:

So... EVERYONE has same "amount" of dignity?


Dignity cannot be measured. Someone has it or they don’t.

quote:

Charles Manson and Billy Graham have the same "amount" of dignity? That is your contention?


Dignity isn’t a reward. Every human is born with it because we are all made in the image and likeness of God.

Posted by 4cubbies
Member since Sep 2008
61098 posts
Posted on 11/29/23 at 8:22 pm to
quote:

Pretty sure we had a discussion here where you were quite enthusiasticly defending the rights of women to kill their unborn babies, whom you seem to also recognize as having inherent dignity.
. I don’t think abortion is a right. I may have pointed out the hypocrisy of “conservative Christians” who want to government to ensure women cannot get abortions but don’t want the government to have any part in helping the child survive past birth.
Posted by bayoubengals88
LA
Member since Sep 2007
24534 posts
Posted on 11/29/23 at 8:22 pm to
quote:

faith +works gets you to heaven. Someone with faith would naturally do go good works.


The differences in what Protestants and Roman Catholics believe regarding justification are razor thin.

Protestants cling to Paul while Catholics site James.
I’m not sure there’s any real difference if you can agree on what it means to trust or believe in Christ.
Posted by 4cubbies
Member since Sep 2008
61098 posts
Posted on 11/29/23 at 8:26 pm to
To posses the capacity to have faith, a person would feel compelled to live out their faith through their actions, their works.

You sound like a theologian.
This post was edited on 11/29/23 at 8:27 pm
Posted by bayoubengals88
LA
Member since Sep 2007
24534 posts
Posted on 11/29/23 at 8:42 pm to
Even Augustine is very clear on the belief that faith is given.

But back to your original question, all orthodox Christians believe in human dignity and you are right to say that there are no degrees of dignity.

The people in this thread who I believe wrongly state that it can be lost, are seeing it through human eyes and not the way God sees them.

If you’re a living breathing person then you reflect the image of God, until there’s no more hope.

I could be wrong about this, but someone would have to show me where and why.
Posted by bayoubengals88
LA
Member since Sep 2007
24534 posts
Posted on 11/29/23 at 9:02 pm to
And as to the main point of why your question carries ultimate significance.

There is no human rights without an inherent belief in human dignity, and there’s no inherent belief in human dignity without the Christian Revolution. See Tom Holland’s writings and interviews.

This cannot be overstated.
It’s why almost everyone in the West acts like a Christian most of the time. Or even if they don’t, they want to be treated by Christian standards.
This post was edited on 11/29/23 at 9:27 pm
Posted by 4cubbies
Member since Sep 2008
61098 posts
Posted on 11/29/23 at 9:32 pm to
quote:

Even Augustine is very clear on the belief that faith is given.

Given to everyone?
Posted by 4cubbies
Member since Sep 2008
61098 posts
Posted on 11/29/23 at 9:35 pm to
quote:

There is no human rights without an inherent belief in human dignity, and there’s no inherent belief in human dignity without the Christian Revolution.


This is exactly right.

Posted by joeyjoejoeshabadoo
DeRidder
Member since Aug 2020
436 posts
Posted on 11/29/23 at 10:03 pm to
You might be right -- thank you for posting this.

I'll spend some time with this and pray about it.
This post was edited on 11/30/23 at 10:11 am
Posted by bayoubengals88
LA
Member since Sep 2007
24534 posts
Posted on 11/30/23 at 7:02 am to
quote:

Given to everyone?
hmmmm…..

I hope so!
I used to think I had all that figured out. I would have said “no”.

Now I’m comfortable saying “I don’t know!”
Posted by AwgustaDawg
CSRA
Member since Jan 2023
14007 posts
Posted on 11/30/23 at 7:30 am to
quote:

Where are you getting your information from?



From 58 years living amongst Christians and Jews and other "believers" and observing their treatment of one another and their actions. Their actions speak far louder than their words....they talk a good game about believing but go about their daily lives treating one another like shite and doing all manner of ill shite that is discouraged by their religion....any religion.
Posted by bayoubengals88
LA
Member since Sep 2007
24534 posts
Posted on 11/30/23 at 8:27 am to
quote:

From 58 years living amongst Christians and Jews and other "believers" and observing their treatment of one another and their actions.
So one man's totally informal and accidental observations is enough to judge a religion of 2 billion plus? Not to mention two millenia of global believers?

Maybe you just live in the Bible Belt, which if I had to guess, is the easiest place to profess the title of "Christian" in the whole world, thus producing the easiest type of belief in the history of The Church, and therefore the highest percentage of hypocrisy. Ever.

I am sorry this is the way it is. Seriously, I lament it. But the reign of American Protestantism has passed on some extremely negative consequences in the form of distortions of the faith.

Here's a challenge. Get your Christianity from Jesus and give everyone else the benefit of the doubt. We're all people after all, thus inherently flawed.
Posted by bayoubengals88
LA
Member since Sep 2007
24534 posts
Posted on 11/30/23 at 8:41 am to
quote:

Christians and Jews, thankfully, only pretend to believe, they know damn well there is no god


I'd wager that this Christian believed.



And why do you say "thankfully" ?
Why are you thankful that Christians are not true believers in your estimation?
It seems that you don't know how a true Christian would act. Here's a hint. They'd truly love you.


This post was edited on 11/30/23 at 8:43 am
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