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re: Do any of the libs here have any facts of the evil of the koch brothers?

Posted on 4/3/14 at 9:06 am to
Posted by Taxing Authority
Houston
Member since Feb 2010
57517 posts
Posted on 4/3/14 at 9:06 am to
quote:

You could end up with nothing and be entirely dependent upon SS.
And a single vote of Congress can cut or even end SS tomorrow.
Posted by CptBengal
BR Baby
Member since Dec 2007
71661 posts
Posted on 4/3/14 at 9:06 am to
quote:

Names and examples. List them.


This is what I'm getting at. I hear vague generalities from the left, mostly about them being "rich", but there is never anything substantive.
Posted by samson'sseed
Augusta
Member since Aug 2013
2070 posts
Posted on 4/3/14 at 9:07 am to
Well, you said you wanted facts.

Read this.

Bribery
Bloomberg reports that employees of a Koch Industries unit in France called Koch-Glitsch made "improper payments to secure contracts in six countries dating back to 2002.

These six years of "improper payments" were made in Algeria, Egypt, India, Morocco, Nigeria and Saudi Arabia. "The only thing that would seriously impact the profitability and continuity of Koch Industries was a compliance issue," former Koch-Glitsch managing director for the U.K., Ged Horner, told Bloomberg. To avoid a bribery scandal like that faced by Siemens AG, the company placed the responsibility on the business director of Koch-Glitsch France, Leon Mausen, and fired him in December 2008.

The "U.S. Foreign Corrupt Practices Act" of 1977 (authored by former Wisconsin Senator Bill Proxmire) makes it illegal for U.S. or foreign companies to pay bribes to government officials and state-owned companies.

Despite Koch-Glitsch's efforts to point the finger at Mausen, the French Labor Court wrote in its opinion that "it was not Mr. Mausen alone who was giving authorizations." Mausen was the fall guy, but responsibility may have gone further up the command chain. Company policy required approval from other Koch-Glitsch managers, the court said, including Christoph Ender, the president of Koch- Glitsch for Europe and Asia.

Sales to Iran
Bloomberg also reports that Koch Industries "sold millions of dollars of petrochemical equipment to Iran, a country the U.S. identifies as a sponsor of global terrorism." U.S. companies have been banned from trading with Iran since 1995, but Koch made sales through its foreign subsidiaries as recently as 2007.

Falsifying Benzene Emissions
In April 2001, the Koch Petroleum Group (now Flint Hills Resources) pled guilty to a felony charge of lying to the government about benzene emissions from its Corpus Christi, Texas plant. Benzene can cause Leukemia and other cancer. Koch earned $176 million in profit from the plant in 1995. It would have cost $7 million to comply with the benzene emission regulation.

In January 1995, Koch informed the Texas Natural Resource Conservation Commission it had installed a new anti-pollution device to burn off the benzene – but refinery workers disconnected it in days.

In December 1995, Koch environmental technician Sally Barnes-Soliz found 91 metric tons of uncontrolled benzene emissions from Koch Petroleum's plant in Corpus Christi, Texas, more than 15 times what was permitted by law. In April 1996, however, Koch reported to Texas regulators uncontrolled emissions of only 0.61 metric tons for 1995, or 1/149th the quantity Barnes-Soliz had found.

Stealing Oil on Indian Land
In May 1989, estranged Koch brother Bill, twin brother of David, told the Senate special committee on investigations of a scheme to steal oil on Indian land. "According to data the committee compiled, Koch took 1.95 million barrels of oil it didn't pay for from 1986 to 1988.

FBI agent Richard Elroy told the committee, "The theft is widespread and pervasive, and these people are being horribly victimized."

The Senate referred the case to the Justice Department, but no indictment followed.

However, in a December 1999 civil trial brought by Bill Koch, the jury found that "Koch Industries had made 24,587 false claims in buying oil, underpaying the U.S. government for royalties on Native American land from 1985 to 1989."



Deadly Butane Explosion
In August 1996, Danny Smalley watched his 17 year old daughter Danielle and her friend Jason Stone get burned alive in a cloud of ignited butane gas that had leaked from a corroded Koch Industries pipeline.

A jury found that "Koch Industries acted with malice because it had been aware of the extreme risks of using the faulty pipeline," and awarded Danny Smalley $296 million in 1999 for the wrongful death of his daughter.

Smalley used the settlement money to start the Danielle Dawn Smalley Foundation for pipeline safety education. "You see two children burned to death in front of you, you never forget that," Danny Smalley said in an interview with Bloomberg. "I want to stop other parents from ever having to see that."

Three months later, Koch settled two EPA cases for $35 million, which covered more than 300 oil spills in six states.

Koch and the American Legislative Exchange Council
Given the Kochs' history of environmental violations and efforts to skirt U.S. law, it is little wonder they have funded a broad array of organizations that seek to dismantle the Environmental Protection Agency, deny climate science that justifies many environmental regulations, and otherwise deregulate the economy in ways that benefit Koch Industries' bottom line.

In addition to Astroturf groups like American for Prosperity, Koch Industries and the foundations funded or managed by the Koch brothers have a long history of heavily funding the American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC).

Among the ALEC "model" bills and resolutions that the Center for Media and Democracy made public on ALECexposed.org are bills that roll back environmental protections and regulations like those that Koch violated in Corpus Christi, resolutions that thwart regional carbon emissions initiatives, and a report calls EPA regulations a "trainwreck." There are also resolutions opposing any and all trade sanctions like those Koch came close to violating with its Iran sales, in addition to bills that advance Koch ideological initiatives like dismantling social security.

The Kochs' Claude R. Lambe Foundation gave $125,000 to ALEC in 2009. The Charles G. Koch Foundation gave over $75,000 to ALEC in 2009 and loaned ALEC $500,000 in 1996. Koch Industries sponsored the publication of ALEC's 1995 Sourcebook of "model" legislation for the states
Posted by Taxing Authority
Houston
Member since Feb 2010
57517 posts
Posted on 4/3/14 at 9:07 am to
It's the classic boogeyman argument.
Posted by samson'sseed
Augusta
Member since Aug 2013
2070 posts
Posted on 4/3/14 at 9:08 am to
See my above post.
Posted by todospm
Member since Sep 2013
526 posts
Posted on 4/3/14 at 9:10 am to
Just some reading material, CPT BENGAL

LINK C52

LINK

And I never said the Koch's were evil incarnate. I just think it's hilarious that they're being painted as innocent victims (who are going to be murdered in the streets by Marxists) while simultaneously their wealth and power grows exponentially. If that's the MO, the Marxists have done a sh*tty job.

But that's the face of "Socialist America", I suppose. MegaCorporations raking in record profits and richest 1% of Americans amassing more weealth while wages stagnate for the middle and lower classes. Not saying we're terrible and have the worst set-up in the history of the world, but to call 21st century America marxist is laughable.
Posted by Taxing Authority
Houston
Member since Feb 2010
57517 posts
Posted on 4/3/14 at 9:10 am to
quote:

These six years of "improper payments" were made in Algeria, Egypt, India, Morocco, Nigeria and Saudi Arabia.
I stopped there. Well, I skimmed the rest but they appeared to be equally ignorant.
This post was edited on 4/3/14 at 9:12 am
Posted by BBONDS25
Member since Mar 2008
48915 posts
Posted on 4/3/14 at 9:11 am to
So the environmental position is what causes all if the hatred? Can I pin you down on that point? Any other issues before we start giving you facts? Let's get a list of grievances outside of environmental issues if you have any.
Posted by samson'sseed
Augusta
Member since Aug 2013
2070 posts
Posted on 4/3/14 at 9:11 am to
Because the rest of that post makes you look stupid.
Posted by CptBengal
BR Baby
Member since Dec 2007
71661 posts
Posted on 4/3/14 at 9:12 am to
quote:

Despite Koch-Glitsch's efforts to point the finger at Mausen, the French Labor Court wrote in its opinion that "it was not Mr. Mausen alone who was giving authorizations." Mausen was the fall guy, but responsibility may have gone further up the command chain.


so they had employees at one subsidiary bribing people?

How does this make THEM evil.

quote:

, but Koch made sales through its foreign subsidiaries as recently as 2007.



you really have no idea on global trade, do you?

quote:

Koch informed the Texas Natural Resource Conservation Commission it had installed a new anti-pollution device to burn off the benzene – but refinery workers disconnected it in days.



do you have a link that the koch brothers told them to disconnect it?




I mean seriously...you expect their vast business empire to be under their direct control, and run a perfect record?

good god.
Posted by CptBengal
BR Baby
Member since Dec 2007
71661 posts
Posted on 4/3/14 at 9:14 am to
quote:

they're being painted as innocent victims (who are going to be murdered in the streets by Marxists) while simultaneously their wealth and power grows exponentially


You just said it....

Them being rich is what makes them bad and garners the hate. It's deranged.

Do you hate John Kerry?
Posted by Taxing Authority
Houston
Member since Feb 2010
57517 posts
Posted on 4/3/14 at 9:15 am to
quote:

So the environmental position is what causes all if the hatred?
i hope not. The amounts in that post are tiny compared to most permit exceedences.
Posted by Taxing Authority
Houston
Member since Feb 2010
57517 posts
Posted on 4/3/14 at 9:18 am to
quote:

Because the rest of that post makes you look stupid.
Nope. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

First, There isn't an business entity operating in those regions listed that has made "improper payments"

The pollution permit exceedences are not only common to the peer operators across the industry, they aren't even very large.

Oh the crack about causing leukemia was nice though.. Great way to increase the emotional value and pull on the heartstrings. Classic Bernays propaganda techniques.
Posted by todospm
Member since Sep 2013
526 posts
Posted on 4/3/14 at 9:33 am to
quote:

Do you hate John Kerry?


Yes.

And I dislike the Kochs for a number of reasons, including, pardon the pun, Reason Magazine's dicey history with Holocaust deniers. But I promised myself I wouldn't get into this...
Posted by Srbtiger06
Member since Apr 2006
28303 posts
Posted on 4/3/14 at 9:52 am to
quote:

I mean seriously...you expect their vast business empire to be under their direct control, and run a perfect record?



"rogue agents"
Posted by Napoleon
Kenna
Member since Dec 2007
69375 posts
Posted on 4/3/14 at 9:58 am to
quote:

his is what I'm getting at. I hear vague generalities from the left, mostly about them being "rich", but there is never anything substantive.






again, you guys were the same way when Liberal money was going after republican interests. It's a two sided thing.

Posted by dantes69
Boise, Id.
Member since Aug 2011
2022 posts
Posted on 4/3/14 at 10:01 am to
-------------------------------------------
Do you hate John Kerry?
-------------------------------------------

yep, probably the only person in the world that could make Hillary look like a competent SOS.
Posted by Taxing Authority
Houston
Member since Feb 2010
57517 posts
Posted on 4/3/14 at 10:01 am to
quote:

"rogue agents"
Just some low level agents at a remote field office.
Posted by CptBengal
BR Baby
Member since Dec 2007
71661 posts
Posted on 4/3/14 at 10:04 am to
quote:

again, you guys were the same way when Liberal money was going after republican interests. It's a two sided thing.



ONE side has created the boogeyman of Citizen's united.

Keep trying though....maybe youll find this board's preferrd solution isnt to curtail the money (that is impossible) but to lessen the power of fedgov and the money will leave.
Posted by roygu
Member since Jan 2004
11718 posts
Posted on 4/3/14 at 1:01 pm to
quote:

Didn't they pay for an ad or were part of a pac knocking Mary Landrieu for backing obamacare?



Was the ad lie or did they tell the facts?
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