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re: Do any former libertarians feel ideologically lost?

Posted on 10/18/17 at 10:20 am to
Posted by CorporateTiger
Member since Aug 2014
10700 posts
Posted on 10/18/17 at 10:20 am to
Some conservatives' insistence that the found fathers wrote an infallible document for how you govern a country is crazy to me.

I support small government, but the hero worship of the constitution is crazy. There are so many unclear and ambiguous provisions in there that have lead us to where we are today.

Why can't we acknowledge that maybe the document just isn't great on some points.
Posted by hawkeye007
Member since Feb 2010
6073 posts
Posted on 10/18/17 at 10:23 am to
that's one of the issues i have with the current Libertarian party.
Posted by Y.A. Tittle
Member since Sep 2003
109758 posts
Posted on 10/18/17 at 10:24 am to
quote:

Some conservatives' insistence that the found fathers wrote an infallible document for how you govern a country is crazy to me.


Wouldn't setting forth a clear framework whereby such a document could be amended be an acknowledgement by those who crafted it that it wasn't "infallible"?

Given this, I'm not sure what you're even getting at with the rest of your post.
Posted by el Gaucho
He/They
Member since Dec 2010
58529 posts
Posted on 10/18/17 at 10:25 am to
I've always liked the idea of libertarianism if only people I liked could live there
Posted by RogerTheShrubber
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
297607 posts
Posted on 10/18/17 at 10:26 am to
quote:

maybe if you keep wishing left-libertarianism isn't real, it will happen!


What's your economic ideals?
Posted by kingbob
Sorrento, LA
Member since Nov 2010
69355 posts
Posted on 10/18/17 at 10:27 am to
Nope, but I was always a constitutionalist and never an an-cap.
Posted by cokebottleag
I’m a Santos Republican
Member since Aug 2011
24080 posts
Posted on 10/18/17 at 10:28 am to
quote:

Why can't we acknowledge that maybe the document just isn't great on some points.



We do and we have on 27 different occasions.
Posted by joshnorris14
Florida
Member since Jan 2009
46693 posts
Posted on 10/18/17 at 10:29 am to
I think the confusions for today's right libertarians comes from their newly discovered understanding of government as a tool for violence, much like a gun. You can use violence for defensive purposes.
Posted by Collegedropout
Where Northern Mexico meets Dixie
Member since May 2017
5202 posts
Posted on 10/18/17 at 10:30 am to
Read Hoppe
Posted by RogerTheShrubber
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
297607 posts
Posted on 10/18/17 at 10:31 am to
quote:

Why can't we acknowledge that maybe the document just isn't great on some points.


Isn't that why we've had amendments?

Which points do you dislike?
Posted by RogerTheShrubber
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
297607 posts
Posted on 10/18/17 at 10:33 am to
quote:

Because I think libertarians that have abandoned their principles on immigration


Where are you getting this? You must not read many libertarian editorials
Posted by Machine
Earth
Member since May 2011
6001 posts
Posted on 10/18/17 at 10:34 am to
quote:

What's your economic ideals?
a well regulated free market ;)
Posted by Zach
Gizmonic Institute
Member since May 2005
116788 posts
Posted on 10/18/17 at 10:34 am to
quote:

maybe if you keep wishing left-libertarianism isn't real, it will happen!


It isn't real. Leftists see govt as the fiat power necessary to make life fair. Libertarians don't give a shite if life is fair therefore govt should be minimal or non existent.

The people I've known IRL who call themselves 'left libertarian' fall into these categories.

1. I'm a liberal democrat but I'm for gay marriage so I'm a libertarian.

2. I'm a liberal democrat but I smoke dope so I'm a libertarian.

3. I'm a liberal democrat but people hate liberal democrats so I call myself libertarian (Bill Maher is in this group).

Libertarians have one fatal flaw that can never be solved. If they agree on 49 out of 50 issues they go nuts on the one you disagree with and say "Well, you're not a reeeallll libertarian."

This one issue differs with each individual. For me it's the DH. If you call yourself a libertarian but you approve of the DH in the American League then in my opinion you're not a reeeallll libertarian. You are infringing on the pitcher's right to bat for his own damn self.
Posted by Zach
Gizmonic Institute
Member since May 2005
116788 posts
Posted on 10/18/17 at 10:35 am to
quote:

a well regulated free market ;)


That's like Mandatory Volunteerism.
Posted by Machine
Earth
Member since May 2011
6001 posts
Posted on 10/18/17 at 10:37 am to
quote:

It isn't real.
plenty of literature out there that explains it. its there for those who want to not be ignorant.
Posted by hawkeye007
Member since Feb 2010
6073 posts
Posted on 10/18/17 at 10:38 am to
quote:

For me it's the DH. If you call yourself a libertarian but you approve of the DH in the American League then in my opinion you're not a reeeallll libertarian. You are infringing on the pitcher's right to bat for his own damn self.

I need to change my tagline..
Posted by Machine
Earth
Member since May 2011
6001 posts
Posted on 10/18/17 at 10:38 am to
quote:

That's like Mandatory Volunteerism.
not really. capitalism is great, but if you want to prevent an oligarchy from forming, you have to sprinkle in aspects of socialism.
Posted by kingbob
Sorrento, LA
Member since Nov 2010
69355 posts
Posted on 10/18/17 at 10:39 am to
I think the issue for them is realizing that maybe some regulation is necessary, the rule of law is needed to maintain private property rights and prevent a mafia state like post Communism Russia. Some Libertarians went so far down the rabbit hole that they cannot contemplate where the line should be between what government should and should not do.
Posted by Sentrius
Fort Rozz
Member since Jun 2011
64757 posts
Posted on 10/18/17 at 10:39 am to
quote:

Do any former libertarians feel ideologically lost?



Not me.

I used to be a libertarian then I did some deep thinking for a very long time and then I just concluded that libertarianism just doesn't work in today's world and is actually pretty counterproductive and now I actually consider myself more of a conservatarian that's not very religious, supports freedom like gay marriage and polygamy, opposes the war on drugs and still a desire for strict law and order on the border and problematic demographics that could threaten small government policies, and want to eliminate welfare as much as I can.
Posted by Zach
Gizmonic Institute
Member since May 2005
116788 posts
Posted on 10/18/17 at 10:40 am to
quote:

plenty of literature out there that explains it.


Yes, it's written by those in the 3 categories I mentioned. It's called fiction.
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