re: Detransitioner Sues Medical Professionals Who Gave Her A Double Mastectomy At 16

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Do we know that happened here?

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We do not know—nor will we likely ever know, even if it goes to trial as what we will hear at trial is he said she said—but that is what she's alleging and everything she's alleging lines up with what whistleblowers are saying is happening out there.

I don't know for a fact that Michael Jackson diddled little kids, but what I know abut the situation makes me sure believe he did.

I have no problem approaching it as a hypothetical, though. I have already posted above that if the provider gave all the information and didn't try to unduly influence the parents by attempting to scare them then I agree with the "eff the parents, it's all their fault" narrative.

But if the doctors did do what the woman alleges, does your stance change, or was that just a bit of a red herring, like when pro-abortionists bring up rape and incest?

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but I like personal responsibility

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I do too, and I also like professional responsibility. The doctor in this scenario has a professional responsibility to act according to the ethical guidelines of his or her profession.

I think the patients can only effectively accept personal responsibility in this situation if the provider is also accepting his or her professional responsibility. Otherwise there's a knowledge gap that is unreasonable to expect personal responsibility to bridge...if not, what does someone need 8 years of school, a couple of years of internship, and 3 years of residency to practice medicine for?

Hell, we got the internet now. Surely there's a Youtube video out there on how to do brain surgery.

I seem to recall from another board that you are an engineer. If that's correct, how does it work in engineering?

Let's say I hire your firm to design a nuclear reactor in a plant I'm building. Let's say you know your proposed design is flawed and risky but you don't disclose that information. In fact, let's say you give a presentation specifically on how we need to go with your design or else the plant in likely to meltdown. You ask me, "Would you rather have a meltdown with that design or no meltdown with this design?" all the while knowing that the research and data indicates that there is very little risk in the design you are claiming is risky and there is a tremendous amount of risk in the one you are proposing.

When the reactor melts and people die, no lawsuits are appropriate? I should have done the calculations myself and figured out which one was the risky design? That was a failure of personal responsibility?

Is that how it works in engineering?

I think the problem with suing them is some of this is being mandated by the government as medically necessary.

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It's textbook malpractice.

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Assuming her claims are accurate, yes, it is.

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I think the problem with suing them is some of this is being mandated by the government as medically necessary.

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What do you mean when you say it is being mandated by the government?

Do you mean that the government is requiring insurance companies to pay for it as a medically necessary service?

If so, the government declaring the procedure generally medically necessary doesn't mean that it qualifies as such in each individual case. That has to be supported on a case by case basis.

The woman says she had zero medical/mental health history of suicidal ideations, so if the whole question of medical necessity comes up, guess what? The doctors lose.

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I think lawyers are going to do more to rid us of this practice than anyone else.

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bullshite. Her case should be thrown out, and medical facilities should think twice about doing this.

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The only way to make medical facilities think twice about it is for cases like this to go to court, for plaintiffs to win and be awarded damages. the surgeries and other treatments are profit centers. Profit needs to go negative.

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Detransitioner Sues Medical Professionals Who Gave Her A Double Mastectomy At 16

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This is the only way this stops.

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I’m not opposed to remedies if medical knowledge was withheld

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Then we ultimately agree.

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Be serious. I’m saying I don’t like using the tort system to accomplish what we can’t accomplish at the ballot box.

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I am serious. What I'M saying is that if the priority is freedom and the cost of that is personal responsibility, I don't see how it makes sense to make the things we're discussing illegal as the remedy for irresponsible application rather than just providing tort remedy for irresponsible or reckless application of an otherwise legal enterprise.

If the thing being discussed isn't deemed a sufficient threat to public safety that it's considered a menace even with informed consent, it shouldn't be illegal. That shouldn't be the remedy.

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From the quote shared it sounds more like they have regrets and want a payday.

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Here's the reason I disagree: “By not providing Luka and her parents with full information on the consequences of breast removal, the dangers of long-term testosterone therapy, rates of desistance, and the poor mental health outcomes related to transition surgeries, Defendants failed to obtain a truly informed consent from Luka and her parents before recommending and/or performing irreversible transgender interventions,” the lawsuit alleges."

The testosterone therapy puts this person at significantly elevated risk for heart attacks, strokes, pulmonary blood clots, and other fatal and/or debilitating events/conditions. They specifically mention this in the lawsuit.

The trend as almost universally reported by the various whistleblowers on this topic also makes the claim very credible that they told her she would be at risk for suicide if she didn't do this but conveniently omitted the information that if there was suicidal ideation it wouldn't change significantly after the transition.

That's also malpractice. That's like saying, "If we don't put these leeches on, you're going to be very sick," while neglecting to tell the patient that whether they put the leeches on or not, they'll still be very sick.