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Posted on 9/26/26 at 5:18 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
Instead of being crude and hateful, I'm going to tell you to go to Jesus. Put your trust in Him and Him alone, not in yourself or your good works (obeying the commandments).
So you think I should break a commandment and hope that saves me.
No. There is nothing you can say or do which would make me do that. You're just saying it for your own self gratitude.
Hell, you've now went and tried to claim that good works = obeying the commandment as a way of telling people it's not about keeping the commandments. Even when Jesus says keep the commandments, he doesn't' really mean it because in this other place he says good works. Such dishonesty.
What a joke.
This post was edited on 9/26/26 at 5:29 pm
Posted on 9/26/26 at 5:57 pm to 3down10
quote:Nope. I'm saying you already break the commandments, and you cannot be saved by trying to obey them, because you already owe an infinite debt against God that you cannot pay off with ongoing obedience, even if you could obey.
So you think I should break a commandment and hope that saves me.
quote:I'm not saying that at all. You misunderstand me. You have some sort of mental block going on here, where you think that if Christianity teaches that you aren't saved by obedience to the law, that you think it teaches you can break them at will and that there is no obligation to keep them whatsoever.
No. There is nothing you can say or do which would make me do that. You're just saying it for your own self gratitude.
I'll say it again: the Bible teaches that we are to keep the commandments. We are obligated to do, and we were created to do so.
The difference is that the Bible doesn't teach that we can be made right before God by our obedience. We are only made right by Jesus' obedience.
quote:You still don't understand, which is ironic, since you keep talking about "understanding" being so important to obedience, which leads to salvation.
Hell, you've now went and tried to claim that good works = obeying the commandment as a way of telling people it's not about keeping the commandments. Even when Jesus says keep the commandments, he doesn't' really mean it because in this other place he says good works. Such dishonesty.
What a joke.
Jesus did command obedience to the law (what is also called, "good works"), but not for salvation. He commanded faith in Him for salvation. You keep saying that obedience to the commandments (again, without specifying what they are) is the only thing that can lead to salvation, and that understanding from the Spirit helps us understand that. That leaves no room for belief in Jesus. There's no point in believing in Jesus if all that means is believing He was merely an example of obedience. Jesus taught something special about Himself and His relationship to the Father beyond our own obedience. He went to the cross to die to forgive sins, not merely as an example. He taught that.
You have to be able to reconcile obedience to the law (by us) and Jesus' death on the cross to forgive sins. You cannot reconcile those, which is why you reject that He died to forgive sins. I can reconcile the command to obey the commandments as a Christian while also believing in Jesus for the forgiveness of sins.
Posted on 9/26/26 at 6:04 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
Nope. I'm saying you already break the commandments, and you cannot be saved by trying to obey them, because you already owe an infinite debt against God that you cannot pay off with ongoing obedience, even if you could obey.
Posted on 9/26/26 at 6:08 pm to 3down10
quote:Before you quit, I'll say it one more time:
3down10
You have been deceived, probably by some demon, to think that you can obey commandments and receive everlasting life. Life comes from Jesus alone, not through yourself and your own obedience. You need to repent of this idolatry and trust in Jesus' work on the cross alone to forgive your sins. No amount of obedience can make up for your disobedience. Only the perfect obedience of Jesus can impute righteousness to the unrighteous like you. You are a sinner, and you deserve everlasting destruction. The good news is the Jesus voluntarily took on a human nature to live and die in the place of sinners, so that if you believe in Him, He will forgive you, and make your weak obedience perfect in the Father's sight. Repent while you still can.
Posted on 9/26/26 at 6:13 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
Before you quit, I'll say it one more time:
You have been deceived, probably by some demon, to think that you can obey commandments and receive everlasting life. Life comes from Jesus alone, not through yourself and your own obedience. You need to repent of this idolatry and trust in Jesus' work on the cross alone to forgive your sins. No amount of obedience can make up for your disobedience. Only the perfect obedience of Jesus can impute righteousness to the unrighteous like you. You are a sinner, and you deserve everlasting destruction. The good news is the Jesus voluntarily took on a human nature to live and die in the place of sinners, so that if you believe in Him, He will forgive you, and make your weak obedience perfect in the Father's sight. Repent while you still can.
Do you think this works on anyone or are you at least honest enough to recognize it's purely so you can feel better about yourself?
It's basically jerking yourself off.
Posted on 9/26/26 at 6:26 pm to lurking
Catholics also killed Orthodox Christians. What they did to Constantinople set the stage for the Muslim conquest of Greece and Asia Minor.
Posted on 9/26/26 at 6:27 pm to hawgfaninc
When were the crusades in the west?
Posted on 9/26/26 at 8:40 pm to 3down10
quote:I trust that the Lord will use the preaching of the gospel to save those whom He chooses to save, and to harden those whom He chooses to harden. Whether you are softened and saved or hardened towards destruction by the preaching of the gospel, is up to God, not me. I'm just seeking to be faithful by sharing the good news of salvation in Jesus Christ:
Do you think this works on anyone or are you at least honest enough to recognize it's purely so you can feel better about yourself?
It's basically jerking yourself off.
For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? and how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! -Romans 10:12-15
Posted on 9/26/26 at 8:45 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
I trust that the Lord will use the preaching of the gospel to save those whom He chooses to save, and to harden those whom He chooses to harden. Whether you are softened and saved or hardened towards destruction by the preaching of the gospel, is up to God, not me. I'm just seeking to be faithful by sharing the good news of salvation in Jesus Christ:
For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? and how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! -Romans 10:12-15
Your religion is based on breaking a commandment.
You can not imagine the degree to which Paul disgusts me.
This post was edited on 9/26/26 at 8:46 pm
Posted on 9/26/26 at 8:53 pm to 3down10
quote:It's based on everyone breaking all the commandments and being guilty before God, and Jesus obeying them all to be a perfect sacrifice for our sins.
Your religion is based on breaking a commandment.
quote:Jesus, Himself, says He came to die for the forgiveness of sins. Paul is only agreeing with Jesus. Maybe you would know that if you read the Bible.
You can not imagine the degree to which Paul disgusts me.
Posted on 9/26/26 at 8:57 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
Paul is only agreeing with Jesus
Paul makes it about his death instead of his life.
You worship Satan and that's why you must break a commandment as your first act.
This post was edited on 9/26/26 at 8:58 pm
Posted on 9/26/26 at 9:11 pm to 3down10
quote:Jesus said that the reason for His life was to give it to save others:
Paul makes it about his death instead of his life.
For even the Son of Man came not to be served but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many. - Mark 10:45
for this is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins. - Matthew 26:28
"And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.” He said this to show by what kind of death he was going to die. - John 12:32-33
quote:I worship the triune God, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
You worship Satan.
Jesus said that He must go and suffer and die and be raised from the dead, and when Peter said that He shouldn't die, Jesus rebuked him as Satan for his faithlessness and hindering Christ's mission:
"From that time Jesus began to show his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and on the third day be raised. And Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him, saying, “Far be it from you, Lord! This shall never happen to you.” But he turned and said to Peter, “Get behind me, Satan! You are a hindrance to me. For you are not setting your mind on the things of God, but on the things of man.” - Matthew 16:21-25
You worship Satan, or some demonic supernatural being that you claim is God. You deny Christ as the Son of God, Messiah, and the God-man that takes away the sin of the world.
Posted on 9/26/26 at 9:28 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
Jesus said that the reason for His life was to give it to save others:
For even the Son of Man came not to be served but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many. - Mark 10:45
for this is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins. - Matthew 26:28
"And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.” He said this to show by what kind of death he was going to die. - John 12:32-33
You're just back to cherry picking things out of context.
His death was the consequences of his actions, not the purpose of his life. If a man dies in the process of saving you by pushing you out of road before being hit by a car, his death wasn't what saved you nor was it the purpose of their actions. It was the consequence and Jesus made the choice still knowing that would be the consequence. That is the sacrifice he made.
Imagine then honoring the person who saved you by putting jewelry of the car around their necks.
Again, I think it's disgusting.
quote:
You worship Satan, or some demonic supernatural being that you claim is God. You deny Christ as the Son of God, Messiah, and the God-man that takes away the sin of the world.
Your entire religion is based on breaking a commandment.
If the rich man were to approach both of us, I'd tell him he needs to keep the commandments. You'd tell him that is impossible, that he only need to accept the free gift and believe in the death of Jesus and declare Jesus is Lord.
I think it's pretty clear what you follow and it's not Jesus.
Also purely coincidental that what saves you is also what saved the Pharisees and that they killed him to that end. They killed him because the truth threatened their power and they needed their lie to continue. After Satan offers him the world.
You can't even make sense of Jesus without Paul.
Posted on 9/26/26 at 9:36 pm to lurking
Geez.....
Posted on 9/26/26 at 9:42 pm to 3down10
quote:
You're just back to cherry picking things out of context.
His death was the consequences of his actions, not the purpose of his life
what? You need to exegete each of those passages to show that, then. You can't just say they are cherry-picked. They all demonstrate Jesus' purpose: to give His life as a ransom (Mark 10:45), to shed His blood (die) for the forgiveness of sins (Matthew 26:28), and to die to draw people to Himself (John 12). There are many more verses that speak to His dying and being raised for the sins of His people. It's even a fulfillment of Isaiah 53 and Psalm 22, which speak to Him being killed for our transgressions (sins).
He expressed intent, not mere consequence. You need to explain yourself.
quote:Intent is the key. Jesus said His mission was to give His life to save sinners.
If a man dies in the process of saving you by pushing you out of road before being hit by a car, his death wasn't what saved you nor was it the purpose of their actions. It was the consequence and Jesus made the choice still knowing that would be the consequence. That is the sacrifice he made.
In your analogy, it wouldn't be an instant reaction of pushing someone out of the way and dying as an unintended consequence. It would be purposefully taking someone's place on the road to get run over to save someone else, with full intent and design. Except in this case, Jesus had planned to step in front of that car from eternity past. It's why He took on a human nature.
The consequence wasn't His death. The consequence was eternal life being purchased for those who trust in Him.
quote:Your opinion is meaningless, and that's all you have, even with your religion. You have no external support. No historical support. No miraculous support. No witnesses. No evidence of the truth of your claim beyond your own statements, which amount to nothing.
Imagine then honoring the person who saved you by putting jewelry of the car around their necks.
Again, I think it's disgusting.
And why do you keep focusing on jewelry? I don't wear crosses.
That being said, the cross is a reminder of what Jesus did for sinners. He took the wrath of God upon Himself so that it could be removed from His sheep that He saved.
quote:Nope. You keep saying this, but it's not. You continue to show your ignorance of Christianity.
Your entire religion is based on breaking a commandment.
quote:I would tell him what Jesus frequently told people: to believe on Jesus for the forgiveness of sins, and then repent of his sins and obey Jesus.
If the rich man were to approach both of us, I'd tell him he needs to keep the commandments. You'd tell him that is impossible, that he only need to accept the free gift and believe in the death of Jesus and declare Jesus is Lord.
quote:I follow the historical Jesus. You follow some gnostic perversion that makes Jesus absolutely unnecessary. According to your belief system, Jesus' life and death was absolutely unnecessary, as everything you can get from Him (from your perspective) you could get by reading the Old Testament.
I think it's pretty clear what you follow and it's not Jesus.
quote:Jesus' death was an attempt to uphold the Pharisees power and to condemn someone who they thought was blaspheming because of the hardness of their hearts, but what it did for sinners who trust in Him was provide forgiveness of sins.
Also purely coincidental that what saves you is also what saved the Pharisees and that they killed him to that end. They killed him because the truth threatened their power and they needed their lie to continue. After Satan offers him the world.
It's not a coincidence. It was prophesied. It's the entire point of why He came, and He said so, Himself. It's also why He asked the Father to forgive them, because they didn't know what they were doing (killing the Messiah who was sent to save sinners). Their blindness led them to reject Christ as Messiah, just as your own blindness has led you to the same end.
quote:Of course you can. The entire theology of Jesus' sacrifice for sins can be deduced by the gospels only. It's further reinforced by the rest of the Scriptures, Paul's letters excluded.
You can't even make sense of Jesus without Paul.
Your hatred for Paul has blinded you from seeing the truth.
This post was edited on 9/26/26 at 9:49 pm
Posted on 9/26/26 at 9:48 pm to Easy
quote:
When were the crusades in the west?
Charles Martel and the Battle of Tours, France in 732 was one of the early defeats of the Muslim Horde.
Mehmed II invaded Europe via Greece in the 1460's and faced Vlad the Impaler, who impaled like 38,000 defeated Turks on the road to Bulgaria.
Spain's defeat of the Emirate of Granda in 1492 expelled the Moors from Spain.
Just a few of the battles when the men in Europe stood up to the Muslim Hordes and drove them back.
Posted on 9/26/26 at 10:04 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
what? You need to exegete each of those passages to show that, then. You can't just say they are cherry-picked. They all demonstrate Jesus' purpose: to give His life as a ransom (Mark 10:45), to shed His blood (die) for the forgiveness of sins (Matthew 26:28), and to die to draw people to Himself (John 12).
Mark 10 is also where he told the rich man he needed to keep the commandments. He did not tell the rich man anything about a free gift or that he was about to die for his sins. Despite being in the same chapter as the verse you quote.
When the rich man asked him, Jesus told him the same thing I say now.
18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.
19 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother.
2 things - Jesus does not call himself God the way you do, he says God the way everyone else does. And he tells him to keep the commandments.
Jesus then only told the rich man what he lacked in doing that. And the man was upset because he couldn't do it. Then Jesus tells people it's easier to get a camel through the eye of a needle than a rich man into heaven.
He said nothing of your claims. NOTHING. Sent the rich man away.
And now you claim that directly after that, he then turns around and cherry pick a verse with the word ransom. Completely negating the entire actions before.
Again, what he is paying is his life to show people the truth, the light and the way. He does this knowing he will be killed for it rather than trying to save himself.
So like I said, you cherry pick things. And I don't see any real point in continuing with you, it's just so dishonest.
I tell you everything Jesus told that rich man, because that is what was told to me. Keep the commandments. You can not enter a society without sin if you do not.
Posted on 9/26/26 at 11:31 pm to 3down10
quote:Of course He didn't, because Jesus, as the God-man, knew his heart, and He knew that the man was an idolater and not going to repent and believe.
Mark 10 is also where he told the rich man he needed to keep the commandments. He did not tell the rich man anything about a free gift or that he was about to die for his sins. Despite being in the same chapter as the verse you quote.
quote:See above.
When the rich man asked him, Jesus told him the same thing I say now.
quote:Are you going to argue that Jesus never claimed to be God? I'm all for it if that's what you're going to argue now
2 things - Jesus does not call himself God the way you do, he says God the way everyone else does. And he tells him to keep the commandments.
quote:Of course He didn't, because, as I said above, Jesus knew this man's heart.
Jesus then only told the rich man what he lacked in doing that. And the man was upset because he couldn't do it. Then Jesus tells people it's easier to get a camel through the eye of a needle than a rich man into heaven.
He said nothing of your claims. NOTHING. Sent the rich man away.
Jesus summarized the entire law with love God and love your neighbor. Why did Jesus only talk about the second table of the law (love your neighbor)? He didn't mention anything about the first 4 commandments. It's because He was trying to show that man that obedience to the law won't save anyone, and that if he thought he kept the law perfectly, he couldn't even obey the 1st commandment.
We all think it's easy to to obey the law if we just look at it like literal murder, theft, and adultery. Jesus, in Matthew 5, explained that we can't actually keep the law, because it goes deeper than mere externalities, and that sin begins in our own hearts and desires. He expands on that in practice with this rich man, because the man loved his wealth so much that he would leave it behind and follow Jesus, who is God. He couldn't obey the first commandment, and he created an idol that he would rather follow. That's the point, and it's what you miss because you are so fixated on keeping the law when Jesus was teaching that no one can.
quote:Not negating. You don't even understand it. You think Jesus was teaching legalism, when that's exactly what He condemned the Pharisees for doing. You ignore all the verses where Jesus only told people to believe in Him without any statement of obedience to the law. You can't have it both ways. You are negating Jesus' comments about belief in Him for the forgiveness of sins with your legalism.
And now you claim that directly after that, he then turns around and cherry pick a verse with the word ransom. Completely negating the entire actions before.
I can reconcile the passages like this one and Jesus' commands to have faith for salvation, but you cannot. You have to ignore those passages and claim they are cherry-picked, because you can't reconcile them in your false belief system. I can make faith and works (obedience to the law) work together because it's what the Bible teaches. You can't. You have to ignore the faith and trusting in Jesus for forgiveness of sins and cling only to the obedience passages.
quote:No, that's not what He said at all. You keep saying (or implying) that Jesus predicted His own death to be an example for others. He didn't say that. He said His death was for the forgiveness of sins, not as an example for others to follow.
Again, what he is paying is his life to show people the truth, the light and the way. He does this knowing he will be killed for it rather than trying to save himself.
Like I said previously, you make Jesus' life and death to be pointless, because you think He only came to show people that they should also obey the commandments. He didn't need to die to do that. The Old Testament prophets gave their lives teaching repentance and obedience to the law. John the Baptist was killed preaching repentance and obedience.
quote:It's not dishonest at all. I'm not making anything up here. This is Christianity. For 2,000 years, Christians have taught and believed exactly what I'm saying. You are the one disagreeing with history and the Bible. You are almost entirely ignorant of what the Bible teaches and you are lecturing me on cherry-picking to support something the Bible doesn't actually teach? The nerve
So like I said, you cherry pick things. And I don't see any real point in continuing with you, it's just so dishonest.
quote:You believe a lie. You don't believe that man is guilty from Adam's sin, nor do you believe that man has his own sin to pay for. You think your god can arbitrarily forgive sin at no cost to anyone.
I tell you everything Jesus told that rich man, because that is what was told to me. Keep the commandments. You can not enter a society without sin if you do not.
I asked you a series of questions twice now, about your beliefs about your god. You have ignored me both times. Why is that?
This post was edited on 9/26/26 at 11:32 pm
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