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re: Conservatives: what's your beef with libertarianism?
Posted on 8/4/18 at 1:26 pm to Houma Sapien
Posted on 8/4/18 at 1:26 pm to Houma Sapien
I believe you're getting "Liberals" & "Libertarians" crossed up in your OP.
- Liberals are anti-americans, who hate capitalism, want free everything and open borders. They want the country to fail.
- Libertarians are fake conservatives pretending to want less government but always stand against true conservative values when it matters.
- Liberals are anti-americans, who hate capitalism, want free everything and open borders. They want the country to fail.
- Libertarians are fake conservatives pretending to want less government but always stand against true conservative values when it matters.
1
Posted on 8/4/18 at 1:26 pm to Houma Sapien
I don't disagree with what you say. However if you want to participate in the actual process you have to go with Dem or Rep. There is no Libertarian candidate that can or has contended for the Presidency.
Locally it may be viable but is limited past that.
In a parliamentary government it would give you a better shot at participating.
Locally it may be viable but is limited past that.
In a parliamentary government it would give you a better shot at participating.
Posted on 8/4/18 at 1:27 pm to Houma Sapien
If the liberitarian party wasn’t run by clowns I’d be more excited to vote liberitarian. But for now it’s just wasting votes.
ETA: I’m not a fan of the current state of the Republican Party BTW.. id love to vote 3rd party
ETA: I’m not a fan of the current state of the Republican Party BTW.. id love to vote 3rd party
This post was edited on 8/4/18 at 1:28 pm
Posted on 8/4/18 at 1:27 pm to xrockfordf150x
quote:
xrockfordf150x
I think you made some good points, but I still dont understand how conservatives can support big government ideas like telling you who you can marry, what religion will be present in schools, not letting you gamble with your own money, etc. Also I dont see conservatives yelling to abolish social security, which is the most socialist practice in place.
This post was edited on 8/4/18 at 1:28 pm
Posted on 8/4/18 at 1:27 pm to umop_apisdn
quote:
- Libertarians are fake conservatives pretending to want less government but always stand against true conservative values when it matters.
Please define "true conservative values".
Posted on 8/4/18 at 1:28 pm to olemissfan26
quote:
If the liberitarian party wasn’t run by clowns I’d be more excited to vote liberitarian. But for now it’s just wasting votes.
Well the problem is thinking that a libertarian form of government comes about via voting, which is decidely un-libertarian.
Posted on 8/4/18 at 1:29 pm to bengalfan50
quote:
However if you want to participate in the actual process you have to go with Dem or Rep
I find that position interesting, considering that Republicans froth at the mouth whenever they hear that I might not vote for their candidate. Sounds like participating in the actual process to me...
Posted on 8/4/18 at 1:29 pm to Houma Sapien
Conservatives are angry old white dudes yelling at clouds while liberals frick their wives.
Libertarians are incel fedora collectors who just want to be left alone.
Nationalists are red blooded American men who are proud of their country and will do whatever it takes to preserve their culture, family, and community from globalist degeneracy.
Libertarians are incel fedora collectors who just want to be left alone.
Nationalists are red blooded American men who are proud of their country and will do whatever it takes to preserve their culture, family, and community from globalist degeneracy.
Posted on 8/4/18 at 1:31 pm to Joshjrn
quote:
Please tell me what, exactly, conservatives have "won" in the last few decades? And I mean real world, tangible victories
quote:
not "won an election", etc.
Cute. Nice try.
But you can't get any more tangible than an election.
Whoever wins an election is the one that has managed to build a large enough coalition of voters who supports a big tent of a policy platform of ideas and beliefs and want to see it legislated into law and every faction of the coalition is wiling to give and take on some issues.
For libertarians to win an election, they need a large enough coalition of libertarian voters to outvote everyone else and that just does not exist and they don't have the fortitude to do that.
Conservatives have won elections and with them they have won Supreme Court seats, tax cuts, deregulation, advancement of pro energy policies, school choice, sensible foreign policy that advocates for american strength abroad.
Posted on 8/4/18 at 1:32 pm to cokebottleag
quote:
Nationalists are red blooded American men who are proud of their country and will do whatever it takes to preserve their culture, family, and community from globalist degeneracy.
Being a nationalist against the globohomo isn't mutally exclusive with the other two descriptors.
Posted on 8/4/18 at 1:32 pm to Joshjrn
quote:
This is news to me and every other atheist libertarian I know
Not to be contentious, but if rights don’t come from God then there is no intrinsic value to any political philosophy. If rights are man made and granted solely by the opinions of the powerful, then your political philosophy is only as valid as your preference of ice cream flavors. There’s no argument to be made on why leaders ought to govern in a certain way, only I’d prefer it if they governed in a certain way. You certainly couldn’t hold them to any standard as they would be the standard creators and could never be “wrong”. There is no law greater than theirs if God is myth.
Posted on 8/4/18 at 1:34 pm to Houma Sapien
quote:
Conservatives: what's your beef with libertarianism?
1. Liberals do not understand the concept of financial incentive.
2. Liberals do not understand the main reason for prison is keeping criminals off of the streets.
3. Liberals do not respect the deep devotion of faith in religious beliefs, and the huge effect religion has upon general moral character.
4. Liberals believe they are wiser than conservatives, not so.
5 Liberals are more intrusive regarding forcing their social mores upon others. Such as P.C., plastic straws, making everyone suffer under their meaningless global warming remedies.
6. Liberals coddle criminals and their behavior.
Posted on 8/4/18 at 1:36 pm to HempHead
I’m just being edgy. Many Libertarians really grind my gears though with the incessant worship of the individual at the total expense of the community. I did that for a while too before having a family.
I’m beginning to understand just how important culture and community are now, and a lot of libertarian tenets are in direct opposition to that growing realization.
I’m beginning to understand just how important culture and community are now, and a lot of libertarian tenets are in direct opposition to that growing realization.
Posted on 8/4/18 at 1:36 pm to steadytiger
quote:
steadytiger
Umm liberalism and libertarianism.....not the same thing.
Posted on 8/4/18 at 1:38 pm to humanlement
quote:
What a fuking joke. The principal of killing the unborn up to and including the third trimester. The principal that grown men should be in school bath rooms with our 8,9,10,11 year old daughters, the principal that all whites are racist, biggits and that all whites and their culture should be destroyed, the principal that we should have open boarders to change the demographics of our country from white to brown, the principal to abolish law and order, the principal that a sitting president can be impeached simply because you didn’t vote for him. I could go on, but I’ll just leave you with the response you don’t want to hear but will and very soon. You sorry MF’ers are fuking with the wrong group on this planet and will find that out soon enough and the response you’ll get will be final. Just remember one thing it was you fuks that started. Is that clear enough for you.
And by your incoherently babbling post, it's obvious you don't know what Libertarianism is.
Posted on 8/4/18 at 1:39 pm to cokebottleag
quote:
I’m beginning to understand just how important culture and community are now, and a lot of libertarian tenets are in direct opposition to that growing realization.
I agree, I was very much the same - though I have been convinced more by reading, as I haven't started a family yet. When that happens, I will probably be to the right of Attila the Hun.
I think that certain libertarian ideas are extremely compatabible with cultural conservatism/reaction, it's just difficult to explain within an American context.
Posted on 8/4/18 at 1:40 pm to Sentrius
quote:
tax cuts, deregulation
Both tiny drops in the bucket. We'll talk when we don't have almost 100,000 pages of federal regulations on the books.
quote:
advancement of pro energy policies
Glittering generality. What does this mean, exactly?
quote:
school choice
What? I imagine that my parents would be curious to find out that they didn't have a choice of where I would attend school when I was a child
quote:
sensible foreign policy that advocates for american strength abroad.
I didn't know spending trillions if dollars being the world's police force was a conservative value these days. Silly me
Posted on 8/4/18 at 1:45 pm to xrockfordf150x
quote:
Not to be contentious, but if rights don’t come from God then there is no intrinsic value to any political philosophy. If rights are man made and granted solely by the opinions of the powerful, then your political philosophy is only as valid as your preference of ice cream flavors. There’s no argument to be made on why leaders ought to govern in a certain way, only I’d prefer it if they governed in a certain way. You certainly couldn’t hold them to any standard as they would be the standard creators and could never be “wrong”. There is no law greater than theirs if God is myth.
Considering that for most of human history, god was used as a justification for the ruling classes doing as they please, forgive me for not being bowled over by such a wide sweeping proclamation.
If you'd like to discuss philosophical underpinnings of political theories, I suppose we can start at Hoppe's Argumentation Ethics and go from there.
Posted on 8/4/18 at 1:46 pm to Joshjrn
quote:
it looks like a neverending string of losses.
That’s nature of conservatism.
You can’t stop change, but you can slow it.
Posted on 8/4/18 at 1:46 pm to Joshjrn
quote:
I suppose we can start at Hoppe's Argumentation Ethics and go from there.
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